http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/list/53.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19607.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19607.page GMT
-Smaggler]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19677.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19677.page GMT I second the above post no D20 PLEASE.... you will kill it... it's a wonderful game as is.

"A suspicious mind is a healthy one"]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19747.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19747.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19769.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19769.page GMT
As long as FFG actually publishes books for it, and doesn't just go on hiatus after a smattering of books, if any, I'm not seeing a problem.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19773.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19773.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19797.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19797.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19806.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19806.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19807.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19807.page GMT
Should do. They don't have to keep anything back so they can show continuing sales to justify their existance to management.

So, a Marine game using DnD4e. Next week.

Get on it people.




Oh, and proper assassins - not that weak sauce from dark heresy.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19811.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19811.page GMT
Don't get me wrong I like a good throw down in a lot of my RPGs but I don't expect it to be everything there is to a game. Please, Please, Please don't turn "Dark Heresy" into a Starship Troopers style disaster of a game

I'm just starting out on my first foray into "Dark Heresy" this coming week and I am really looking forward to it. Lets hope "FFG" are going to build on the excellent Core Book that is already out there and turn this system into something that "GW" are going to regret ever letting go of.

My first character is a Psyker and already toting up those Insanity points

Name: Venris Novus
Title: 3rd Son of House Novus of Krieg
Rank: Sanctionite
Quote: "The Darkness, she whispers to me..."


Enjoy your Gaming whatever you play and however you play it.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19850.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19850.page GMT
In very rough terms, you're following a progression of power levels, though there are also different core ideas: investigation, adventure, and combat respectively.

I'd be very happy to see [i]FFG[/i] keep roughly the same plan.

...and for those that feel that Acolytes are peons, just wait till they're in the 3rd or 4th Rank of their Careers - they're quite formidable.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19868.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19868.page GMT
I want Marines damnit!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19894.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19894.page GMT
Don't get me wrong I like a good throw down in a lot of my RPGs but I don't expect it to be everything there is to a game. Please, Please, Please don't turn "Dark Heresy" into a Starship Troopers style disaster of a game
[/quote]

I think you may be vastly underestimating the possibilities of a Space Marines game. Many great dramatic movies take place in wars and war zones, and feature soldiers as most of the main characters. Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, Full Metal Jacket...not everything has to be Rambo III.

I'd also like to point out that as games whose settings are directly pulled from war games, violence is a little bit inevitable. These settings were originally imagined and refined to produce many readily plausible conflicts, and any material based on the setting is going to have to reflect that to be honest to it's source.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19940.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19940.page GMT
As for D20 or 4E from the notice I think that FFG will use the same system that DH is already using as they said they would continue the lines. Here's hoping anyway.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19955.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19955.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19969.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19969.page GMT
Quite frankly, having read and playtested the three remaining DH supplements, I can't honestly see anything more that urgently needs to be done with Dark Heresy after Disciples of the Dark Gods in September. As a result, if FFG choose to pick up the game and take it in a different direction, I'm not too fussed so long as they keep producing stuff as high-quality as DH and its supplements.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19982.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19982.page GMT

Just please, don't take DH to 4th Edition (ie. MMOG on paper).]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19990.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19990.page GMT
As for roleplaying Marines, I think the way to go would be all mythic and whatnot, with epic heros standing around pontificating about the state of the universe:-

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30780.html]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19998.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/19998.page GMT
I'd also like to point out that as games whose settings are directly pulled from war games, violence is a little bit inevitable. These settings were originally imagined and refined to produce many readily plausible conflicts, and any material based on the setting is going to have to reflect that to be honest to it's source.[/quote]

Wolfgar, in responce to your comments :- I agree that there are also many good movies where war is part of the major dramatic content, however on looking more closely it becomes obvious that the Combat and killing of the Enemy is not the major focus of the majority of those films. I am not trying to say that we shouldn't have fun with a Space Marine squad in the Dark Heresy game, merely stating an opinion that those players who want nothing but a combat based game are missing out on a lot of the content of the system.
I am expecting there to be Violence in the upcoming Dark Heresy game that i'm taking part in, I realise that conflict in this sort of game is rarely going to be sorted out by diplomacy and everyone sitting down for Tea and Biscuits. Yet our characters are not going to be gun toting psychos whose first responce in any encouter is to go for their guns and shoot anything that moves, well depending on how paranoid our GM gets us i guess . Also as you can see from the first Maps provided by Black Industries, there are vast areas of Imperial Space that have not been torn apart by War and Invasion but from an outside perspective the decline of the Empire seems inevitable and there are enemies on all sides.

In my little roleplaying circle of friends there are 2 or 3 players that also fit into the mold of "Combat Junkies", for want of a better phrase, and when they heard about Dark Heresy the first thing they thought of was Space Marines rampaging around the 40k Universe destroying everything they come across and surviving against immense odds. Unfortunately these are the same players that can spend 3 hours of game time debating about their Guns and Weapons and try to steer every encounter into a bloodfest.
These are the sort of players that spend more time selecting their Equipment and Weapons than they do on creating the Character, its background and motivations.

I'm not trying to be an elitist, the RPG Police or telling people how to play. I'm just stating my own personal opinion and expressing a dislike for a particular play style that I find has sometimes spoiled perfectly good games that i have been involved with.
Lets not turn "DH" into the sort of game that Cyberpunk seemed to become, where it was all about "Bigger Freakin' Guns" and the amount of hardware you could stick into your body before you became a machine. I know you don't have to use all those supplements and that these games can still be played low key but Players always want the Bigger and Better toys, till it becomes another part of the Reward system of the game.

I like these kind of discussions and i'm sure it's one of the reasons i will keep coming back to these Boards.
It is not my intent to cause offence or to tell people how to play their games, I am merely stating my opinions and hoping to spark some kind of lively discussion.

I look forward to reading more of your comments ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20021.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20021.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20049.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20049.page GMT ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20068.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20068.page GMT
And the 'Broken Assassins' were representative of assassins 'just startin' out' in the profession... I really wasn't expecting Eversors or anything because, according to the fluff, the officio assassanorium agents have to be raised from the same age as Space Marines (starting Puberty).

Keep the system ffg... It's punitive compared to d20 and that's they way I like it... no taking on the Chaos gods at level 40 please ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20079.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20079.page GMT
Sounds like a perfect opertunity to sell equipment handbooks to me.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30788.html]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20133.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20133.page GMT While I can't speak to [i]FFG[/i]'s plan for the franchise, [i]BI[/i] had intended to keep the same core system for all the books, and simply have different emphasis on the "extras:"
[list][i]Dark Heresy[/i]: Corruption & Insanity[/list]
[list][i]Rogue Trader[/i]: Starships & Travel[/list]
[list][i]Deathwatch[/i]: Space Marines & uber-combat[/list]
It will be interesting to see what happens now.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20152.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20152.page GMT
And no one has ever really explained what one is actually supposed to DO in Rogue Trader.

Quit messing about and make with the Space Marines!

--

This Too Human game really is what I'm talking about - doing Norse Myth with a scifi overlay -

http://uk.gamespot.com/video/928546/6186603/too-human-gameplay-movie-3

Theres one bit where a Techno-Valkyrie warps in to collect a fallen wolf-soldier, presumably to take them to techno-valhalah, Odins hall high in the Orbital String for resurrection to continue the battle against the machine hordes of the Vanir. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20211.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20211.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20265.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20265.page GMT
And the 'Broken Assassins' were representative of assassins 'just startin' out' in the profession... I really wasn't expecting Eversors or anything because, according to the fluff, the officio assassanorium agents have to be raised from the same age as Space Marines (starting Puberty).

Keep the system ffg... It's punitive compared to d20 and that's they way I like it... no taking on the Chaos gods at level 40 please [/quote]

While I would agree that one or more Space Marines would not fit in with a group of Acolytes, I would disagree that there is little opportunity for role playing in a combat environment. There are plenty of situations that, though a combat element is there, allow role playing. One need only peruse the Black Library Space Marine novels. These 400 page books are not cover to cover combat. A lot of them involve deep penetration and infiltration missions: FACT finding missions in situations where less capable individuals would not survive. Granted you could about guarentee there would be combat, but I think you will be hard pressed to come up with many RPGs that don't.

To your point, yes a Space Marine game would probably include a lot more combat.

Also to your point, you couldn't mix Space Mariens with regular acolytes excpet maybe as a heavy support NPC. Nothing says you have to though. I would love to see the third book come out with Space Marine style campaign rules - where the whole group is a squad of Space Marines. They could grow together form Scouts up into Tactical or Assault Squads, diferentiate into Medics and Tech Marines. Be bestowed with Terminator honors and when they die (gloriously) they become Dreadnaughts!

A group could even alternate between the two: An Acolyte stylr game uncovers a chaos coven on te brink of summoning a greater Demon! The Inquisitor they report to ALSO has a squad of Space Marines seconded to them for close support. In comes the Space Marines to clean up the mess.

Just some thoughts. I certainly respect your not wanting your campaign devolving into ongoing sessions of non-stop combat ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20272.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20272.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20307.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20307.page GMT Well, considering FFG having individual forums for pretty much all individual products, even if they only generate a single post a month, I think it's pretty safe to assume Warhammer will get one or two forums of their own, and soon.

After all these forums will be swamped by [i]thousands[/i] of posts if and when BI shuts down their forums.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20482.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20482.page GMT
And no one has ever really explained what one is actually supposed to DO in Rogue Trader.

Quit messing about and make with the Space Marines!
[/quote]

I doubt we'll see much of Space Marines, to be honest.

Remember, as it was said in Inquisitor, the Deathwatch usually send a single Deathwatch Marine to any particular event. This Marine has his own retinue of acolytes.

I think the Deathwatch book would just be covering what it'd be like to work for the Deathwatch, and high powered games, etc.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20502.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20502.page GMT Give the poor [i]FFG[/i] webmasters a chance - the announcement was only made Friday, and I'm sure they have some discussions with [i]BI[/i] that will take some time before they set a strategy for transitioning the boards. I wouldn't expect any drastic changes for a while.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20545.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20545.page GMT Give the poor [i]FFG[/i] webmasters a chance - the announcement was only made Friday, and I'm sure they have some discussions with [i]BI[/i] that will take some time before they set a strategy for transitioning the boards. I wouldn't expect any drastic changes for a while.[/quote]

I never said right now at this instant. I was just posting something I wished to see.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20553.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20553.page GMT Whatever they do with it will be just fine.
I was so heartbroken when I thought Dark Heresy was a stillborn game.
The news that FFG will be continuing support had me giggling like a moron at work all day yesterday.

Anyway,
personal wish list is to see a continuation of the original plan laid out by BI. ie; continued support for Dark Heresy, followed by a release and support of Rogue Trader (Which is really the game I've wanted to see for over a decade now...) and finaly Death Watch and it's support material.

The whole idea of Rogue Trader has me really jazzed. The concept of pulling a sort of Han Solo / Malcom Reynolds in the 40K universe just appeals to me on so many levels. PC's get their hands on a millenia old star ship that's been trashed and busted up from centuries of use and combat. They find a noviate tech priest to keep it in the sky, a young navigator to fly it. Maybe an astropath if they can afford one. Take odd jobs for criminal syndicates and the like. Deal with pirates, explore unknown worlds using the flimsy authority that a centuries old charter gives them... There's a mind blowingly vast amount of stuff that can be done.
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20560.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20560.page GMT Its certanly a potential goldmine... but could also be quite tricky to get right =/


Personaly I just hope that they keep the fluffy way BI handeld most of their books.
Ie. the Tome of Corruption (chaosbook) was alot more about the way chaos works in the world than about the stats of a Blood Thirster.
Their WERE stats for Blood Thirsters, but the focus wasnt on
"This is a typical deamoncultist lair, and this is how a Blood Thirster encounter will work out ruleswise." but more about how they affect the world etc.

So my biggest hope is that they give us alot of fluff!

I mean I like alitle extra choises for equipment/talents (or feats etc), but those extra stuff sometimes makes games unbalanenced when the player who have read every book and used all the extra rules/equipment to make a "monster PC" is in the same party as a guy who just made his PC with the core-rules (and theirfor potentialy is weaker). not to mention all the time spent getting said gear in game =/
Less shopping more adventuring!

Oh, and one last thing.
BI was realy smart in the way they often produced a settings book, and directly after realesed a adventure using that setting/race.

The Skavenbook - Terror in Talabheim.
The Brettoniabook - Barony of the Damned
The Borderprincesbook - Lure of the Lichelord

Im hoping for a Hiveworld settings book (with focus on one particular hivecity, but also tips/rules for building your own) and follow that with a cool adventure taking you from the filthy crimeridden depths to the clean, beutful crimeridden top =))]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20633.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20633.page GMT
Doesn't everyon? An important thing is that books for players tend to sell more than books for GMs. I know I (mostly a player) own a lot of splat ('complete Scums handbook etc.) and equipment books, but relatively few adventures.

And sales are important if we don't want WFRP etc. to fold up and die for what would be the fifth time.

And theres some really cool gear you can detail for an RPG - all the wonderful concept art is full of stuff that may never make it to the tabletop game but could easily find a home in a Marine RPG:-

[img]http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/62813531.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/62813496.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/62813528.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/62813494.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/62813492.jpg[/img]

Seriously dude, who DOESN'T want dual weilded assault cannons?

--

For roleplaying, we have friction between the different things Marines could want - is it more important to Protect the Imperium, protect the lives of Imperial Citizens (Jervis Jonson says Space Wolves are one of his favorite chaptters because they actually care about civilians), to engage in glorious and honorable battle, to be victorious in battle, to honor the Emperor or to prove your fighting skills superior to those of your fellow Marines? The friction between PC and NPC marines about how to go about things is a good start, and then you have differences between chapters to fuel more roleplaying.

I believe the latest Chaos Space Marine codex focuses on Marines who have gone renegade comparatively recently, so we can have badies who used to be friends/mentors/family of the PC Marines - Dante and Virgil, Darth Vader and Obi Wan/Luke, Lucifer and the archangel Michael etc. and if they want the PCs can turn renegade and become Dark Jedi with cool black clothing and elaborate facial tats.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20664.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20664.page GMT I for one see a lot of potential rpg opportunities for a marine heavy game. All the inter-chapter rivalries and the overlaping authority between the adeptus astartes and the rest of the Imperium's offical power structure alone will make for a plethora of gaming.

But I also think the original concept of slowly introducing players to various facets of the 40K universe, first with a game about investigation, then a game about exploration and finally a game about annihilation is certainly the way to go. You want to finish with a bang, and for my money, it doesn't get much more "Bang" than with marines.

Of course, for all we know, FFG will just chuck the original product development plan all together and come up with an entirely different approach. And that's fine too.
As long as the 40K rpg lives on with regular product support, I don't much care what form it takes.

Tyrant. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20739.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20739.page GMT
LOL. Don't worry, Erik, I'm sure you'll be kicking heretics about with your size 20 power boots before you know it.

R.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20813.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20813.page GMT
The fear of all Star Wars RPG GMs (Try making a charcater that ISN'T a Jedi or Han Solo) but I see where your coming from and, to use an ork term, freebooters have always been cool. There's something about authority that can only remain cool whilst there are degrees of dissent amongst the ranks whilst the rebels/ those that operate beyond the law maintain an aura of cool despite how evil they might be (The Empire in Star Wars is the Exception that proves the rule)]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20820.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20820.page GMT
[b]Dezmond[/b], those prototype Space Marine drawings were not used for 40K because the Marines in them were [i]insanely[/i] overpowered. Twin-Linked Assault Cannons? That kind of overkill hasn't been seen on an infantry unit since the late days of Second Edition, and the game is far better for it.

If those kind of weapons were too powerful for one person to wield in 40K, then they are far too powerful for an RPG such as Dark Heresy.

There is no real longevity to a Space Marine Campaign IMHO - and this is coming from someone that has been collecting a Space Marine 40k Army for almost 20 years. Space Marines are a one-trick-pony: They kill. When they have finished killing, they get in their ships and practise killing until they arrive at the next warzone, where they deploy and start killing. Space Marines are the ultimate embodiment of the Warrior. They do nothing but kill and practise killing until the day they die - apart from eat, sleep and pray to their Primarch or the God-Emperor. They are more or less emotionless, have no desire other than to uphold the honour of their chapter and are brainwashed from an early age to be almost incorruptable.

All of this takes a lot of the more 'fun' elements out of Dark Heresy.

Don't get me wrong, I'd possibly consider running a single Marine in a group - [i]sans[/i] power armour a la Lexandro D'Arquebus, and I'll definitely use one or two as NPCs at some point. However running a group of them would have my gaming group (and myself) bored to tears in no time.

I sincerely wish FFG all the best in continuing Dark Heresy. Hopefully they will stick to Black Industries' system and plan for releases. I'm already salivating at the prospect of Rogue Trader. After all, thats where 40k originally started!!

All the best,

Urza]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20822.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20822.page GMT
We may not be able to see how they're going to do it from this point of view. But, to be fair, I've spent the last 20 years thinking that a 40kRP in and of itself was impossible and DH (sorry, Geki, but I've never heard of Dunwich Horror - sounds like a sorority movie) has proved that wrong in the best way.

R.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20833.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20833.page GMT
Possibly, but it doesn't matter in an rpg. Overpowered doesn't really come in to it when you have a team of 3-4 pcs taking down demon incursions.

And it gives somewhere for characters to advance to - a starting PC has bog standard Astartes plate and a bolt gun, while a level 20 pc has twin linked las-cannons, a double ended power-chain-force sword (a force sword where each chain tooth has its own power field generator, so it looks like loads of little shockwaves coming off the blades as it spins) and is wearing custom armour built for speed, with quad amplifiers that alllow vast leaps, and a miniature void shield generator.

[quote]They are more or less emotionless, have no desire other than to uphold the honour of their chapter and are brainwashed from an early age to be almost incorruptable.[/quote]

Nah. Marines are always protrayed as passionate guys. You almost never see one who isn't screaming in pain or rage. The Horus Heresy happened when fully half the legions turned to chaos, and like I say the latest CSM codex talks about more recent renegades, so these boys are forever falling to chaos or going off on their own.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20895.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20895.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20901.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20901.page GMT
You'll probably want to post on the Black Industries forum since that's the company releasing it.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20919.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20919.page GMT
You'll probably want to post on the Black Industries forum since that's the company releasing it.[/quote]

Not necessarily. BI took their webstore down and seem to have taken a vow of silence on all things until FFG gets things figured out. They did not offer presells on Purge the Unclean last week as they were scheduled to do, and they have not posted on or moderated the forums since the beginning of last week, including Q&A. I'm not sure that FFG did not purchase the stock of Purge the Unclean, and the rights to the rest of the books for DH.

Hopefully one of the two companies will provide some insight on the remaining DH books soon.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20975.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20975.page GMT
Hopefully one of the two companies will provide some insight on the remaining DH books soon.[/quote]

Hmmm. That's disconcerting. Makes me think perhaps they knew what was coming, despte previous statements. It would explain why the release was pushed back.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20981.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/20981.page GMT
You'll probably want to post on the Black Industries forum since that's the company releasing it.[/quote]

You probably know this by now but FFG bought all the remaining books to be published as well as prior books. This was acknowledged today on the BI forums. So, if and when we get Purge the Unclean it will have a FFG logo on it.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21034.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21034.page GMT
You'll probably want to post on the Black Industries forum since that's the company releasing it.[/quote]

You probably know this by now but FFG bought all the remaining books to be published as well as prior books. This was acknowledged today on the BI forums. So, if and when we get Purge the Unclean it will have a FFG logo on it.[/quote]

Thats a big maybe. If "Purge the Unclean" is already printed, and they bought the printed versions of it as well....ditching those and reprinting them just for a label is not what we call 'cost effective']]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21041.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21041.page GMT Possibly, but it doesn't matter in an rpg. Overpowered doesn't really come in to it when you have a team of 3-4 pcs taking down demon incursions.

And it gives somewhere for characters to advance to - a starting PC has bog standard Astartes plate and a bolt gun, while a level 20 pc has twin linked las-cannons, a double ended power-chain-force sword (a force sword where each chain tooth has its own power field generator, so it looks like loads of little shockwaves coming off the blades as it spins) and is wearing custom armour built for speed, with quad amplifiers that alllow vast leaps, and a miniature void shield generator.[/quote]

As hyperbole to better illustrate your point it doesn't get much better than this... however don't expect it to be on the equipment list as a Space Marine in Tactical Dreadnaught Armour (Terminator Armour to you and I) only ever wields one assault cannon because he'd be blown backwards from the recoil with two. On top of this, even chapter masters don't get that kind of gear... I might as well demand a ROCKET PROPELLED CHAINSAW LAUNCHER... WITH NINJAS! So don't getcher hopes up too high. Even the Best-of-the-Best-of-the-Best, Grey Knights, are limited to Nemesis Force Weapon and Storm Bolter or appropriate heavy weapons.

[quote=Dezmond]
[quote]They are more or less emotionless, have no desire other than to uphold the honour of their chapter and are brainwashed from an early age to be almost incorruptable.[/quote]

Nah. Marines are always protrayed as passionate guys. You almost never see one who isn't screaming in pain or rage. The Horus Heresy happened when fully half the legions turned to chaos, and like I say the latest CSM codex talks about more recent renegades, so these boys are forever falling to chaos or going off on their own.[/quote]

Not Necessarily, this varies from Chapter to Chapter... The Space Wolves are certainly a passionate lot whilst the Dark Angels are Taciturn to the extreme, perhaps to even go so far as Withdrawn.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21062.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21062.page GMT
Works for me!

I mean, world of warhammer online is gonna have Epic Loot, and I'll bet good money that so will the 40k mmo. The other game that the company who are making it are working on is Darksiders: Wrath of War, in which one plays War of the four horsemen of the apocalypse taking vengence against the demons who betrayed him. Or something.

[img]http://www.tech2.com/media/images/2007/Jul/img_11942_darksiders_450x360.jpg[/img]

[quote]Not Necessarily, this varies from Chapter to Chapter... The Space Wolves are certainly a passionate lot whilst the Dark Angels are Taciturn to the extreme, perhaps to even go so far as Withdrawn.[/quote]

Variety is fine. A zen warrior marine can play straight man to the drinking, whoring wolves, until buddy movie style they come to see the advantages in the others way of doing things.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21151.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21151.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21398.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21398.page GMT
Finally, THANK YOU FFG! ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21443.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21443.page GMT
Well, that has to be just about the largest demographic in gaming!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21446.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21446.page GMT
You now have the licence to take my money, should you produce books.

Especially if you produce Rogue Trader and Death Wing.

I am sort of curious how a party of Space Marines would play in an RPG, but doubters should consider the following:

a) The gang from Black Industries did a bang-up job on WFRP and Dark Heresy

b) FFG seems to do a great job on it's games too

c) A game with the proper background which made playing a Space Marine an interesting roleplaying experience would rock so very hard that any mention of it in an internet message board would require statements in bold all-caps followed by dizzying numbers of exclamation points and ones as the exhilaration of typing our adventures striding the universe righteously smiting the vile enemies of the Emperor whilst struggling with what it meant to be titans, nay, living demigods would overcome many of us mild-mannered souls. This book would sell very many copies. It could also sell many following books of a supplementary nature.

So I say it should be attempted.

Edit- I really did mean to work in the phrase "to a machine-gun hammering metal guitar solo with a backdrop of explosions and starships crashing into one another" into the purple prose earlier, but it just didn't want to go. I am clearly not up to the task of writing Death Watch, and thus it is left to better writers than I.
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21452.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21452.page GMT
I am so relieved to see that DH continues as a gameline. I really hope that FFG won't change the system to d20 but maybe we will see the news sometime soon.

What comes to playing Space Marines, it's not dull unless you make it so. They have personality and even personal agendas, likes and dislikes. Not everything is about combat and you can't really run a covert investigation with one of them hulks running along, can you?

Sure, they are superior in fighting when compared to normal humans but when you pit them against xenos etc. things are getting hairy. Besides I would be more than surprised if characters would necessarily start as full blown Space Marines. Aren't there a some sort of process by which they are "created" from normal humans by adding implants etc.?

Changing the direction of game is not an issue. The whole gameline was designed to include all aspects of WH40K universe but instead of using one book the designers decided to go with three separate corebooks. If the old plan is still holding (it might as well as not) then DH will be supported for quite a while even before Rogue Trader is published and only after that the Deathwatch. Each line has their own sourcebooks and I am quite sure that even when (if) Deathwatch is published there is enough material to run DH games as acolytes or even as an inquisitor and his retinue of primary operatives.

Heck, each corebook will just widen the aspect of the gaming experience and as it is already planned ahead (to some extent) there is quite good possibility that the gradual expansion of power is kept in check.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21760.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21760.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21819.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21819.page GMT
Works for me!

I mean, world of warhammer online is gonna have Epic Loot, and I'll bet good money that so will the 40k mmo.[/quote]

So you'd like FFG to turn Dark Heresy into a tabletop version of an MMOG? [i]*pukes*[/i]

Isn't that exactly how Wizards of the Coast broke AD&D? For the love of the Imperium please don't ever let that happen to Dark Heresy!

Dark Heresy is not about 'kewl 3p1c l00t'. If you want that, please go and play WoW...

[quote=Dezmond]A starting PC has bog standard Astartes plate and a bolt gun, while a level 20 pc has twin linked las-cannons, a double ended power-chain-force sword (a force sword where each chain tooth has its own power field generator, so it looks like loads of little shockwaves coming off the blades as it spins) and is wearing custom armour built for speed, with quad amplifiers that alllow vast leaps, and a miniature void shield generator.[/quote]

For one thing, those weapons you describe are ridiculous. Space Marine power armour is already cutting edge, and the generators for void shields are so huge that you can only fit them on Titans and monstrous vehicles.

A power-chain-force sword? Sure, why not give him a Quad-Linked Assault-Bolt-Plasma-Las-Melta Cannon too? Hell, why not one on each shoulder and one on each arm too?

The correct career path for a Marine should be Initiate - Scout - Marine - Sergeant and then up the ranks to Captain, with various branches for Techmarine, Librarian, Apothecary and Weapons Specialists.


[quote=Dezmond]Nah. Marines are always protrayed as passionate guys. You almost never see one who isn't screaming in pain or rage. The Horus Heresy happened when fully half the legions turned to chaos, and like I say the latest CSM codex talks about more recent renegades, so these boys are forever falling to chaos or going off on their own.[/quote]

Astartes [i]occasionally[/i] turn renegade. The recent CSM Codex actually refers to the original Traitor Legions splintering into renegade warbands more than it does about new Renegade Chapters. Astartes have always been shown as cool, calm and collected in the midst of battle. They never allow emotions such as rage to cloud their judgement. 'And They Shall Know No Fear..' is their motto for a very good reason.

Yes, there is room for some customisation here, but not to the OTT extent that you are referring to.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21864.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21864.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21920.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/21920.page GMT
There has never been a successful military role playing game. GURPS tried hard with World War II. But most successful RPGs have been about PC groups that are on their own for the most part.

My guess it that following strict orders and getting killed by pure bad luck is such a part of a military campaign that it lends itself more to war gaming than role playing.

Yes, movies and books abound about combat. As do war games, with or without minis.

Role playing started with the original, white box, D&D. Players could explore the world, but ended up in holes in the ground full of monsters and loot. Grid paper gave the players only a few choices.

Later games expanded on player choice.

DH seems to work because the PCs are far away in time and space from their Inquisitor. It is mission based role playing, but that helps in high tech environments w/ zillions of choices. You have to close off most of the choices or you don't have a game. You'd have Sim-Life 40k style.

A squad of marines surrounded by 1,000 other squads can have fantastic drama, where they are forced to kill or be killed, all the while thinking of home. But the free form nature of role playing would be lost.

However, given the excitement around the concept, it would be worth trying. Commando teams, Marines behind enemy lines, the single team that is sent to a primitive planet and ordered to hold it at any cost...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22049.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22049.page GMT
Mmmmm. And it may well be that this failure to leverage the aqusitorial nature of the gamer animal is a large contributing factor toward why Black Industries has closed its doors.

---

Warhammer online is going to be absolutely swimming with phat loot, so it isn't as if GW are ideologically opposed to it.

And theres loads of potential in 40K for Magic Items. There can't be much that a combination of recovered tech from the Dark Age of Technology, the artifice of Master Tech Priests, Psyker powers and Good Old Fasioned Sorcery can't do - you want a talking sword you have your choice of blades with bound demons, blades with integral machine spirits or blades carrying the psykic imprint of a long dead saint.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22064.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22064.page GMT
Ah well, this is why you go for more of a Knights on a Quest model.

The PCs work as a Deathwatch team on their own, raiding tombs or putting down demon infestations and earning glory for themselves and the emperor.

Brothers of the Snake mostly has one squad operating alone, while one story features a Marine on a solo mission. Deathwatch kill teams can be even more independent, basically resembling the team of freelance advnturers who wonder around taking whatever jobs they fancy that is the basis of pretty much every roleplaying game ever.

Basically, sell the thing as more of a warrior brotherhood.

Er, if you are familiar with Pendragon, like King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table. The knights/marines are all having a feast/prayer meeting when someone bursts in and says 'Forsooth! I have a quest that only the most brave and noble knight/marine could undertake'. All the knights/marine jump up, saying that as the noblest/bravest it should be their honour to complete the quest. The king selects the PCs, who go off and chuck the ring in mount doom or slay the dragon or whatever, and then they go back and boast of their achievements.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22069.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22069.page GMT
Nah, the generally accepted intel on the reason for closure of doors is a general downturn in the income from the core business. This comes from market reports and press releases.

Downturn in profits = Cut backs

This in turn means you look at the business and increase your revenue by paring back those areas that don't generate revenue. Unfortunately a high quality glossy RPG book (with planned equally high quality glossy splat books) makes less overall revenue than the basic literature publishing model. Hence Black Libraries continues operation and BI closes.

Nothing to do with inability to leverage, everything to do with GW being run by Accountants, they always have been.. its why they are still in business.

oh and.. Yay first post.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22087.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22087.page GMT Nothing to do with inability to leverage, everything to do with GW being run by Accountants, they always have been.. its why they are still in business.[/quote]

Same fing innit. Maybe BI would still have been cut if they had just put out Space Marine: The Demon Stomping and had the Dark Angels splatbook and the Big Book of Phat Loot (aka 'The Assault Cannon Handbook') in the bag, but I'm certain it would have given them more ammunition when management came asking them to justify their existance.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22100.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22100.page GMT [sarcasm]Yes, because Dark Heresy did so poorly when it was released. I mean, look at the vast piles of rulebooks they haven't sold...[/sarcasm]]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22107.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22107.page GMT
Weren't enough dude...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22108.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22108.page GMT
For the love of all that's Imperial, drop it out!

Anyway, Marines suck. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22114.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22114.page GMT There were only so many rulebooks to be sold. Black Industries managed to shift [b]all[/b] their stock to customers and distributors... and were out of stock themselves on the release day. How is selling 100% of your product and still having demand a failure?

Indeed, the situation seemed more like Black Industries were closed down and their products licenced out for reasons unrelated to their success - GW as a whole were suffering financially and needed to make cuts somewhere... RPGs are expensive to make and form a much smaller portion of GW's audience than miniatures games (and potentially draw customers away from the miniatures games), so they got dropped in spite of their roaring success.

Once more, you grab logic and reason by the ears and beat them with a stick until it resembles something like your argument. You make assertions about the gaming community, in spite of having everyone you make those assertions to in vocal disagreement with you, and you flat-out assume that your way is not only the best way to game, but the only way.

The above paragraph was true on the old Black Industries forum. It was true on the Black Library forums, and it's true now.

Edit: Oh for an ignore function like the Wizards of the Coast forums have...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22133.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22133.page GMT
Even if you do live in Reading ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22134.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22134.page GMT
The very fact that the longest thread is ALWAYS about space marines would seem to imply there is interest there...

Just... Get Over It and start the Marine love!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22135.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22135.page GMT
Even if you do live in Reading [/quote]
Reading has the largest proportion of GMs to players I have ever seen in any town (just looking through the regulars at Eclectic Games and Spiky Club, I figure a ratio of about 1 GM for every 2.5 players over dozens of groups... most of the groups I've ever run contain at least three people who GM for other games)... and we get GenCon UK on our doorstep.

From a gaming perspective, Reading isn't a bad place to live...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22140.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22140.page GMT Be fair; 90% of the posts on those threads tended to be people disagreeing with you, with the other 10% split between your posts and actual discussion.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22143.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22143.page GMT Be fair; 90% of the posts on those threads tended to be people disagreeing with you, with the other 10% split between your posts and actual discussion.[/quote]

Even when I'm not there...

http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5064
http://vidzup.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=a72fcde8674735e5fd93360fb439cc7a&

(Deathwatch - 80 posts
Reglar - 70 posts - but then 15 of those are in the longest thread... about Marines!

Heavens - who would have thought it was so difficult to convince GW to spam Marines?]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22159.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22159.page GMT
Look, in DH you can play as anything, given a bit of tweaking, and there have been some very good stabs at Adeptus Astartes career paths on the BI website.

IMHO, you are going to have a limited RPG experience because of the nature of the beast. What does a Space Marine do other than go to war, go back to the monastery, train, eat, go to another war, train...etc.

If you want a one night hack and slash, fine. Extended campaigns are going to suffer.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22171.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22171.page GMT
There has never been a successful military role playing game. GURPS tried hard with World War II. But most successful RPGs have been about PC groups that are on their own for the most part.

My guess it that following strict orders and getting killed by pure bad luck is such a part of a military campaign that it lends itself more to war gaming than role playing.

Yes, movies and books abound about combat. As do war games, with or without minis.

Role playing started with the original, white box, D&D. Players could explore the world, but ended up in holes in the ground full of monsters and loot. Grid paper gave the players only a few choices.

Later games expanded on player choice.

DH seems to work because the PCs are far away in time and space from their Inquisitor. It is mission based role playing, but that helps in high tech environments w/ zillions of choices. You have to close off most of the choices or you don't have a game. You'd have Sim-Life 40k style.

A squad of marines surrounded by 1,000 other squads can have fantastic drama, where they are forced to kill or be killed, all the while thinking of home. But the free form nature of role playing would be lost.

However, given the excitement around the concept, it would be worth trying. Commando teams, Marines behind enemy lines, the single team that is sent to a primitive planet and ordered to hold it at any cost...[/quote]

You're trying to use logic with this guy, it won't work. If the concept is anything other then taking Dark Heresy and turning it into the RPG version of Unreal Tournament 3 with Space Marines, then it's quite beyond him, I'm afraid. He firmly believes in the squeakiest and lower common denominator getting the grease and will attempt to drown out every logical argument you throw out with logical gems like "But dude, WoW has X million subscribers", "just look at this random game trailer", "Space Marines are ZOMGWTFPWNBBQ!!111!!" and the like. Over on the BI forums we found the best way to deal with this forum virus was simply to let it expel energy and fall on deaf ears, rather then give it actual logical arguments to feed on.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22176.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22176.page GMT
(Note to self: Stop using logic.)]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22181.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22181.page GMT
Ah well, here we have a typical adventure, freely ripped off from Pendragon:-

[quote]The Adventure of the Nunnington Dragon

Time: Anytime in the third or fourth phases
Setting: Nunnington, Galactic East of Eburacum
Problem: A Star Dragon has made its lair on Nunnington
Characters: Old Marlon, a Renegade Enginseer; the Brother Dowler, Marine-Lord of Ryedale
Secrets: Old Marlon knows how to slay the Star Dragon
Solutions: Do what Old Marle says
Glory: 400 for slaying the dragon

Getting There

To Nunnington from Eburacum, take the eastern warp gate, and go along the King's Highway warproute Galactic South. After about 7 light years you reach a cross road, but continue eastward. Don?t take the north or south branches. Drop out of Warp when you reach the Malton Outpost in the Ryedale system. The people here can direct you to the moon Nunnington and the Star Dragons lair. You will recognize the devastation.

Getting Help

Only one person knows what to do about this: Old Marlon, a Renegade Engineseer. The player Marines are told about the wise man if they question the peasant folk, or if they go asking about the Star Dragon anywhere near the territory it has claimed. Alternately, someone may suggest they see the man if they discuss their plans to do something about the dragon. Lastly, the old man himself could come to the player Marines, having heard about their boasted intentions. He is a wizened old man, possibly an Engineer from before the Imperium they say, who lives in the hills outside of whatever place is convenient to the gamemaster.

Little description of the location is needed for gamemaster; it is a typical hut in the woods with an old man and his young peasant-boy assistant.

Old Marlon greets visitors and politely asks their business. He is neither rude nor deferential to the Marines. He listens to their desire for help about the Star Dragon.

He says he can give this knowledge, but requires only to know that the Old Ways are not entirely dying out. He asks everyone if they remember the Old Knowledge. Everyone who is present and wants to can attempt [Knowledge (science)]. If anyone succeeds, he gives his blessing, and tells them the following: - the Nunnington Star Dragon is smaller than most of its kind. While this may make it easier to kill, it is also harder to find. And the like smaller snakes which it resembles, the Star Dragon has a poisonous bite. Finally, it can heal its wounds, slithering back together even as it is chopped apart. But I have the solution to these problems - this dog."

The Cyber-Hound of Sool

Sitting beside the old roan is a big old cyber-hound called The Cyber-Hound of Sool. It is required to destroy the Star Dragon.

Old Marlon offers the dog to whoever it will follow. However, the dog has ideas of its own, and will only go with someone who passes its test.

Players must attempt to make Opposed Resolutions for all the Chivalric traits- Whoever succeeds in the most traits wins the friendship of the dog, which comes forward and licks his hand. If there is a tie, then the person with the highest Chivalry total is the winner.
"Do you want it'?" asks Old Marle. "With it comes an obligation to fight the Nunnington Dragon."

If the Marine accepts the offer, the dog is his friend.

"It will do the first thing you tell it to do, without question. Then it will remain by you and obey you until it decides to depart. When it leaves, there is nothing you can do to keep it.'"

The player must roll a d20 each time he gives an order to the dog. If he rolls a value greater than 20 minus the number of orders, then the dog departs without doing tie task.

The Fight

During the fight the Cyber-Hound of Soot helps the hero by carrying away pieces of me Star-Dragon as they are lopped/blown off. This is all that prevents the Star Dragon from regaining its hit points.

According to one version of this folktale, only the dog was poisoned by the dragon's venom, and when it licked his master's face after the combat, both of them dropped dead. Gamemasters can decide how to handle this, or simply decide that the dog is immune to the poison.

Afterwards

As the player Marines fly back from their fight with the Star Dragon, they meet the Marine-Lord of Ryedale, either in space or at the first outpost they stop at. He is astonished to hear their tale, and takes them to the scene of the fight to see it for himself. Once done, he leads the victorious Marines to his best estate at Hamlake Castle, where they are treated like heroes. After a couple of days of preparation, die earl gives a great feast People come from miles around to participate.

Favorite Dish: Stewed, fried, broiled, sugared, baked, and hashed Star-Dragon, served with every imaginable spice

Favorite Entertainment: The story of the Star-Dragon-slaying.

During the many toasts, the player knights must each attempt an opposed Tremperate/Indulgent. Success at Indulgent, or voluntary over- drinking, results in temporary drunkenness modifiers.] Marine-Lord Ryedale praises the Marines highly, and everyone cheers. [Pride, +3 if drunk. Success = you accept it, and feel great.]

The Marine-Lord tells the Marines that he thinks they deserve a prize for their efforts. Do they agree? Everyone who succeeded at Pride says "Yes, I agree."

"'Then." says the earl, ?I will grant to each of you victors a manor on Nunnington, in return for a Marine-service, as is the custom in all the Sector." [Courtesy. + 15 because everyone knows these basic rules. Success = you know that this is true. This is the basis of feudal service.] "Will you accept it?? asks the Marine-Lord, in front of everyone.

Allow everyone a [Stewardship, -3 if they are drunk. Success = they remember that everything on Nunnington is utterly devastated, and not worth anything for this service.] It looks like they are being cheated!

Will the player knight interrupt the proceedings with this accusation? Have them attempt [Honor. Success = they know they will lose Honor, or maybe Hospitality, or maybe both, if they interrupt.] If they persist in interrupting, the gamemaster should roleplay the protests, the anger, and so on. Without too much hassle just say their impudence is silenced and they are thrown out of court (at the least). Various penalties range from:

Disturbance Penalties

Disturbing the proceedings, -1 Hospitality Insulting the earl. -1 Honor and -1 Hospitality Starting a fight, -2 Honor and -2 Hospitality Being in a fight. -2 hospitality Killing someone, -2 honor Results are cumulative.

Player Marines who neither interrupt nor succeed in their Pride rolls may still politely refuse. The Marine-Lord thanks those who refused, proffering lavish praise (they may check their Generous).

Those who are to receive a manor are brought forth, and a great swearing of fealty is made. Oaths are sworn, and so on. Another toast is made, the festivities continue until the night ends.

The sworn Marines each generate a Loyalty to Earl Ryedale and write it in on their character sheet. It is equal to 3d6, minus any Hatreds they may already have for him.

The knight gets a lifetime grant of the income from the manors of Nunnington. They should write it in under "Holdings" on their character sheet.

However, the estates on Nunnington are worth nothing. The earl is cheating the knights. It is his way of insulting the foreigners. It is a petty gesture which he expects the knights to realize after they see their lands again. He expects them to leave, and never come back.
Player Marines, at this point, ought to do just that. Give them [Forgiving, Prudent +5, and Arbitrary rolls, where success at any one means they leave, Undoubtedly swearing that it is only "for now."]

Anyone with a freshly written Loyalty (Marine-Lord of Ryedale) statistic will undoubtedly want to change it right now. Allow them to reduce it to only 1d6. But they must keep something - it's the law.

Tell the players to leave their Loyalty Passion, and their holding, on their character sheet for some indefinite future. They will never know when it may have some meaning in the future.[/quote]

Note that this should involve getting cool custom armour with loads of power blades all over it, so when the Star Dragon curls itself around the Marines it cuts itself up. But Mythic stuff like that. Mighty Heros doing great deeds.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22194.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22194.page GMT Just... Get Over It and start the Marine love![/quote]

Bah!!!! Imperial Guards 4 Eva!!!!
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22283.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22283.page GMT [/quote]

[quote=Jeris Johnstone]I am amazed at the numbers of plastic space marines sold. I can't believe it , I keep expecting it to be a front for drugs.[/quote]

Space Marines - They're Just Like Crack






They even jack up the price after the first one. No matter when you bought it!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22293.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22293.page GMT Ah well, here we have a typical adventure, freely ripped off from Pendragon:-
[/quote]

Was this a joke?



I mean this was not 40Kish at all ..... IMO

]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22611.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22611.page GMT Ah well, here we have a typical adventure, freely ripped off from Pendragon:-
[/quote]

Was this a joke?



I mean this was not 40Kish at all ..... IMO

[/quote]

That'd be because it wasn't.

Every Space Marine game would involve the players walking forwards, killing stuff, then going home for tea and prayers. That's about it.

Have you ever read the "Day in the Life of a Space Marine" article (wasn't called that, but can't remember the name) that was in White Dwarf a few years back? Space Marines pray, eat, train and go fight. That's it, which, IMHO, doesn't really leave much space for the roleplaying.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22623.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22623.page GMT
[url]http://forum.blacklibrary.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9101[/url]]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22631.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22631.page GMT ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22663.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22663.page GMT
Ah well, here we have a typical adventure, freely ripped off from Pendragon:-

[quote]The Adventure of the Nunnington Dragon

[i]Blah, blah blah[/i][/quote]

Note that this should involve getting cool custom armour with loads of power blades all over it, so when the Star Dragon curls itself around the Marines it cuts itself up. But Mythic stuff like that. Mighty Heros doing great deeds.[/quote]

Wow. Thats so awesome. You've completely changed my mind

Sounds like the kind of AD&D RP my friends used to run when they were 12 and had no idea how to run a proper RPG that involved anything other than fighting ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22670.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22670.page GMT [/quote]

Hee. I'll be sure to pass your thoughts on to Greg Stafford of Glorantha fame - it is his adventure with Knight replaced by Marine.

The Nunnington Dragon is Yorkshire folk tale, presented here in the dialect of the area:

[quote][i]It appened yar haytahme. It ad been a glishy sooart of a morning but t'rain held off an' ivverybody was doon t'fields, slarking up and leeading. T'last wains was on their rooad ome wi' t'jaggins.

T'hosses was all decked up, t'lasses leeaked bonnier than ivver and t'village fowk had fettled a bit of a do on t'hill top near t'choch.

It was Barnaby neet and there was gahin to be a celebration for gittin' haytahme owered - tan fire, music, food, drink, singin' and jiggin' aboot. Fowks wad come frev far eneeaf, parzling aboot on t'grass while mindin' for cow claps while t'young lads and lasses hallocked aboot summat daft.

There was a Barnaby Queen an' all. Noo some lasses are reet ladloupers and some are gormless, but oor Barnaby Queen, Frances, was a reet winsome lass, yamley and bonny. She was real semmanty and t'bonniest lass thoo must have clapped een on. She wasn't brazzen fond or gammerstang, nor slape-tongued neither.

She was just reet for t'job.

Onnyroad, t'last wain was comin' in and Frances had ti git up there and sit on t'top while fower gallowers fetched it in. Whell, folks was singing an' shouting, there was ribbons an' flowers with ivvery yan on us tivvying and cheering. Noo then, all that racket woke up t'Nunnington Worrum - an' he wasn't varry pleased!

He'd been sleeping ower bi t'wathsteead near Loski Bottoms and he let oot sike a bealdering and beldering and inno he was bautering ower fields at a fair lick. Then he stopped and gat hisself croppen amang t'breckons, chavelling at yon bottery bushes an' hezzels. Then he saw t'lass on t'haywain and, rooaring like nowt, he aimed for t'wain.

Whey, Frances screamed like an awd stuck sow but yon Worrum kept gahin.

He had greeat glaring een and teeth lang eneeaf ti be thack prods or mebbe caumbrills, rudsteeaks or reeafshafts. He was aboot orf a mile lang wiv desperate great tongue and spines doon his back like potlugs and scalderings, and greeat green scales like laithe deears. His tail end was like a shakfoork and his legs were as big as bitterstang powls. Talk aboot a jotherum! He was a monster, mak neear mistak!

There was nowt anybody could deea to stop him gitting Frances - fowks just stood aroound in a flowterment and gawped. T'canthrif o' fowk on t'hill top leeaked deathstrucken as this greeat awd worrum wrapped itsen aroound Frances and carted her off tiv it's lair near t'bounderstoops.

It's a sham ti say them fowk did nowt - ivverybody was shammed on em. They were crambazzled and betwaddled. Then Sir Peter Loski tonned up.

He was a moorender knight and he'd had a thrang tahme in t'Crusades but he was comin' yam for his holidays cos he felt a bit dowly. When t'Nunnington fowk spotted him, they shouted, Thoo'll etti be sharp and deea summat aboot yon Worrum.' Aye, Ah will that,' he said.

Noo Peter had a little Jack Russell and was dhrissed in a new-fangled suit specially made for fighting dragons and worrums. It was as strang as a skelbeeast and had sharp blades all ower ti stop worrums wrapping theirsells aroound him.

He had a parlous sword an' all, it was made oot o' stuff he gat from King Arthur - it would cut owt, they reckoned. Peter and his dog louped after yon Worrum. Then it spotted em!

It dropped Frances intiv a clump o' sieves near t'beck and tonned on Peter as he tried despret hard ti raddle it. He ad a plain job deealing wiv yon Worrum cos it wrapped itsell aroound him and squeezed his armour till it buckled, near matter aboot them blades. It was blowing stinking fumes intiv his feeace seea that he coughed and throppled but his little dog was rahving aboot, barking and nipping t'Worrum's shackles.

But t'Worrum wadn't leeave hod.

Fowk thought Peter was a gonner but then he managed to slipe a lump off t'Worrum. But ivvery tahme he did that, t'Worrum joined itsell tigether. He sliped away for hours on end, chopping bits off wivoot a result.

And then t'little dog capped it.

Thoo can allus rely on Jack Russells seea just when Peter was aboot lathered, yon dog clicked hodden a lump his maister had sliped off and carted it away ti bury it, just like dogs deea.

By, yon Worrum didn't like that!

Seea when Peter sliped off another lump, yon Jack Russell carted it away! Noo then, t'pair on em had gitten t'better of yon Worrum.

They kept gahin till only t'heead was left and dog carted that off and buried it near Nunnington choch. Yon Worrum was deead and nowt but cat-collop.

But efter all that activity, Peter was in a bit of a muck lather and sat doon for a rest. His little dog was loppered an' all and it ran tiv him and licked his feeace. Well, it's mooth was full o'poison and t'upshot was that all yon poison killed Sir Peter on t'spot. Then t'dog died an' all - it just whemmled ower, poisoned by t'Worrum.

It was a sad affair all roound.

Ivverybody in Nunnington was bidden ti t'funeral and if thoo goes inti Nunnington choch noo, thoo'll see Sir Peter Loski's effigy inside wiv his Jack Russell lying at his feet. Just inside t'dooer, on t'right.

That tale's as true as can be, but if thoo dis git ti Nunnington, mak sure thoo disn't wak up any greeat awd worrums.[/i][/quote]]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22698.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22698.page GMT [/quote]

Hee. I'll be sure to pass your thoughts on to Greg Stafford of Glorantha fame - it is his adventure with Knight replaced by Marine.

The Nunnington Dragon is Yorkshire folk tale[/quote]

I'm perfectly aware of the Nunnington Dragon folk tale - I was referring to the way that you had adapted it.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22702.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22702.page GMT
I like that adventure - you have dealing with Old Marl to get the hound of Sool, and the bit where the local lord gets pissed the PCs have done his job for him, in addition to a sweet ass battle with a worm.

--

Anyway, the thing is that if Marines act like Arthurian Knights, as they tend to be written, then they are very playable, and a neat excuse for FFG to put out books detailing various custom suits Marine armour.

I don't know if you have played the boardgame Shadows over Camelot, but I see it working sort of like that.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/15062]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22732.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22732.page GMT
If you want to learn about Chapter history, you might as well just pick up the 40k Codexes and/or BL Novels. They'd be cheaper than FFG sourcebooks anyway I would imagine.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22737.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22737.page GMT
I don't think you are thinking enough like an evil, bloodsucking megacorperation there. So long as people will buy it,there is always room for another book. And like I suggested, you can ALWAYS find a bigger gun.

And in an RPG you can have your OWN mighty space marine, instead of reading about Gav Thorpes!

]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22742.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22742.page GMT
The only equipment you'll see for Astartes will be that which is approved by Games Workshop. It's their Intellectual Property after all. So there won't always be a 'bigger gun' - In fact the largest Infantry based Astartes weapon is either the Plasma Cannon or the Las-Cannon.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22744.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22744.page GMT
Wait for the 40k mmo...





Or, dare I say it, the upcoming FFG Marine epic!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22748.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22748.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22795.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22795.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22810.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/22810.page GMT
Hello,

We will be putting up a 'Frequently Answered Questions' article on
the Black Industries/Games Workshop deal on our web page tomorrow
(hopefully!). This will hopefully answer alot of your questions! The
deal was just announced last week, and we're still working out details.

Thanks for your patience,
XXXXXXXXX
Customer Service
Fantasy Flight Games

I removed the rep's name from the reply to protect his privacy.
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23020.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23020.page GMT
[url]http://forum.blacklibrary.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9101[/url][/quote]

That made me laugh so much that my wife is looking at me funny.

You have hit the nail on the head, my friend]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23050.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23050.page GMT
Yeah - like when someone is going to pull their finger out and make with the Space Marines!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23161.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23161.page GMT
And on a related note, has anyone used ProFantasy's Cosmographer by any chance?
I've been toying with getting it, but I'm not very skilled with mapping software (as in, have NO experience at all). But it's supposed to allow one to create your own deckplans and sector maps and lots more to boot.

Tyrant. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23185.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23185.page GMT
Hello,

We will be putting up a 'Frequently Answered Questions' article on
the Black Industries/Games Workshop deal on our web page tomorrow
(hopefully!). This will hopefully answer alot of your questions! The
deal was just announced last week, and we're still working out details.

Thanks for your patience,
XXXXXXXXX
Customer Service
Fantasy Flight Games

[/quote]I got that as well. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23231.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23231.page GMT
[/quote]

Ehh ... hmm ... I think you missed the point .... with like a lightyear ...

But I see that you and I live on different planets, so I think I ignore you hencheforward..

]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23484.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23484.page GMT
I think there are deckplans for Traveller and something for Serenity RPG as well that could be used. In addition to those, you might want to check out drivethroughrpg and see if there are deckplans for space ships (I am pretty positive that there are).]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23517.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23517.page GMT my first post in this forum (sorry for my poor english).

I'm concerned about WHFRP and dark Heres
I just hope that FFG will not kill WHFRP and dark heresy by letting those down!

Also I wanted to mention that I am not happy about what happened. I just bought the Dark Heresy book and was entending of buying all the next releases then suddenly the announcement at BI. I [b]invested[/b] in a new book - screen(and new setting). I was waiting for a long time since the annoucement of 40k role playing game... And what a disapointement when I heard the news..

So I have a few questions:

Will FFG continue the good BI work or will they let us down?
Are role playing books not lucrative enough?....
Is this has only to do with money?

I'm a little pessimistic and concerned about the future of WHFRP and dark heresy ...

]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23522.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23522.page GMT
so far for the released date i imagine purge the unclean may by released whit some delay but probably not a very important one (the book is probably rdy before the transaction and i dont see them to make reprint only to see there logo on (probaly add the logo via a sticker) and the other expension may suffer a greater delay ...they need to make it place the organisation required to keep producing the book and the new stock

just hope for some stock online to help us to wait whit serenity

and for all those critic agai space marine ...well that giving oo combat oriented class whit less investigation part but maybie not to overpowering ...possible scenario ....surviver abandoned behind after an evacuation , a squad send to recom mission, surviver of a crash, assault launch on a enemy possition but fail and need to escape to the enemy hunting them, part of a team escorting a inquisition mission of high risk

the rogue trader part seem more interristing giving a space dimension to dark heresy, like new enemy or hold one using ship to escape empire force. chaos preacher and corruptor , xeno recon party , ghost ship , pirates ,

mission can be investigation again strange ship, a ship landing whiout autorisation in a back zone , investigation on ship who vanish in some sector all whit a space dimension giving chance for space hunting , spaceport investigation to keep track of escaping enemy , space combat

this one seem to be a very interresting add on

i just hope ffg give us some information soon regarding the futur of dark heresy]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23535.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/921/23535.page GMT