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My biggest problem is that I can not throw him out of the group and neither can I confront him directly about the issue since he would take huge offence and it would just lead to massive arguments, but I am at a loss as how to stop him otherwise.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154437.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154437.page GMT
Harsh? Effective? Cumbersome? Hell yes.

Obviously my normal response would be to talk to the player, make a front with the group. But since you seem to be unable/unwilling to go that down that lane I guess my suggestion could work.

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Barring that? I strongly suggest the confrontation route because anything else will not fix the problem and your group is probably better off with this issue out in the open and the guy gone. break the cheater's little fragile ego and get rid of him.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154510.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154510.page GMT
Or even better yet.

As mentioned make sure you have copies of their sheets... and start rolling for them. (or some times).


If you want even still tell them to roll, but you roll also.... and use your roll. (don't even need to tell them in you used your roll, since they have no way to know for certain their roll would work. (don't know what modifier's are being used, etc).


HECK one of the best ones I have done to honestize rolls ... When in combat you roll and they roll. You roll an additional die.

On even... use their roll for them, your roll for their opponent.
On odd ... Use THEIR roll for the opponents ... and your roll for them.

Had on character get hit with three criticals before he realized every time HE rolled a critical his opponent seems to often survive but HE got hit with a critical.


The other way I love to do it... is get them the players to make rolls for you.

Your reading the screen call out and ask one of them to make an attack roll, or d100, or whatever (don't necessarily tell them exactly what)...

After the dice roll... then check your numbers, "Hmm looks like that is a hit, would you like to try to dodge?"

I will regularly with some players (especially open groups / unknown groups) have them make rolls for me... Its often faster for them to roll dice while I'm looking up stuff... and plus they never know if they are making a check of some kind... or if they are rolling dice for NPCs...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154518.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154518.page GMT Barring that? I strongly suggest the confrontation route because anything else will not fix the problem and your group is probably better off with this issue out in the open and the guy gone. break the cheater's little fragile ego and get rid of him.[/quote]

I realize you said this isn't a possible course of action but, even when taking arguments into account, direct confrontation is the best approach in pretty much all cases. Creating special rules and dumb things that slow you down is generally a horrible idea. I mean, doing all that stuff means you may demoralize your non-cheating players and, well, that's just a steaming pile of bullshit.

However, talking to all your other players first is a good idea. Tell them you are going to confront Player X about cheating and that you'd like to represent the group when you do this. If Player X freaks out and leaves, it's no big loss.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154556.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154556.page GMT
You will have a bigger problem with the other players especially if they quit. Would you rather risk one player or the rest of the players. One player quitting usually won't shut down the game. However, making multiple players unhappy, will.

One easy way to curb the die roll cheating (if you are playing face to face) is to use a cup. Make every player shake the cup with the dice in it and throw it using the cup. Problem solved. If the game is taking over the internet, you have to do all the dice rolling.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154561.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154561.page GMT
it also sets the tolerance level on what the player can expect to give away with in the future. if he's a jerk for cheating in a game where there really is no reason to cheat, then he'll be a jerk no matter what you do to accomodate him. better to make accomodations for players that are worth the effort.

[quote]
However, talking to all your other players first is a good idea. Tell them you are going to confront Player X about cheating and that you'd like to represent the group when you do this. If Player X freaks out and leaves, it's no big loss.[/quote]

this is the best advice before doing anything imo.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154564.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154564.page GMT anyway, he's ruining the game by the sound if things.

The problem you've got is that whatever you do will result in confrontation of some sort, even clever group rolling or whatever, the cheater doesn't want that as it ruins what he's doing, and he may well call you out on it.

I'd just bite the bullet and tell him to stop F*ing cheating or get the F* out. But maybe be a bit more diplomatic about it than that...
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154570.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154570.page GMT
Cheating is always an issue, and can be made especially hard when the person doing the cheating is one that you feel is a problem to confront about it, for whatever reason.

The problem is, if he's ruining the play of the other players, then you run the risk that you may save him as a player, but loose the other players completely.

I'm not sure why you're afraid to loose him as a player. A player who cheats, and then isn't mature enough to handle being confronted about it when discovered, usually isn't someone I want in any of my games.

This is going to sound kind of immature, but start tossing things at him that his dice can't beat. Create a demonhost and let the party know it is a demon host, with huge regen capabilities, and that basically someone is going to need to do massive righteous fury to kill it. I guarentee you that the cheater will find a way to cause it, and if he's a typical cheater will ensure he wins on the initiative so that he can beat out the demonhost (and the other players) and get the glory.

What you don't tell him is that for every point of damage that is done to the demonhost, an identical amount of corruption is done to the character doing the damage. So when he rolls a "righteous fury" and then rolls the damage on his bolter (make sure he has a bolter with some rather good ammo) you can imagine the amount of corruption in one shot his player is going to get. If the other players are smart, once they see this they'll run like hell, and do more research on how to kill or banish this demon host without getting themselves corrupted

Also have your other player characters shoot him due to the mutations he has, give him a bone where his Inquisitor post-humously calls him a Hero of the Emperer for sacrificing himself in defeating the Agent of Chaos, and then seal it forever more in secrecy in the Inqusition.

My guess is he won't take that very well and will throw a fit about it, but hey its 40k and worse things happen to good people trying to defeat chaos. You can then tell him that you could have done what happened to the Inquisitor in the second adventure in Purge the Unclean, and that you were feeling generous by only doing that. You roll a new character for him, with input from him on what he wants, give it to him, and be done with it.

Also, give him a subtle reminder that if he hadn't gotten that Righteous Fury, none of this would have happened, subtly letting him know that "you cheated to get it, you're problem not mine"

Sure its passive-aggressive but it may work. Worse comes to worse he cries, throws a fit, yells and screams and kicks him feet, and quits your game, in which case your game is better off for it. On the best case, he learns his lesson.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154663.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154663.page GMT
It's your job to ensure a good time is had by all the players. Call the guy out and be firm, you never know, you could be doing him a favor he may just learn that he can have fun without cheating. As it stands now you are losing the respect of the entire group and that will doom your game.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154666.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154666.page GMT At the end of the day role-playing is about having fun; not winning. If his cheating is ruining everyone else's fun (including yours) then he's not a friend worth having.

Tell him to stop it or get out.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154743.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154743.page GMT
Talk to him and lay down the Law. The question truly is: if all the other players quit, would you enjoy to play alone with the cheater? Probably not. Making ways and house rules designed to hinder the cheater is just too bothersome.

Now I don't know why you can't just confront him? Cheating is unacceptable in any game, and it should be one of the more easier topics to talk about in a RPG-group , as it is more or less an open and shut case: nobody likes cheaters.(It is not as personal as a discussion about his personal hygeine or something) Besides, it seems like you would have the rest of the group to back up you on this one. So you won't be alone.

But one thing is for sure: action has to be taken, or else it seems you will lose the rest of the players.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154748.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154748.page GMT
I got the idea from another DM who had a similar problem, he used a plate shaped like a fish. 'Pass the fish' became the code for wanting to make a roll.

ps

in game give him a really ubar weapon so he is actually drooling, then have him shot in the head by a lone gunman on a grassy knoll. In my game the item was linked to a teleporter and he found himself in a room surrounded by loads of Fey (eldar). He died there, we had a memorial and everything. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154758.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154758.page GMT
Man up and kick him out, just like you'd kick out someone who steals your loose change.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154794.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154794.page GMT
Ok, she is breaking the rules we all use and agreed to use but we are tolerating this.

It is not ok in this case because the group is offended by it and therefore a discussion with the player is definitely needed.

There are some nice ideas like a common place for rolling the dice or how about declaring that no dice will be used anymore (where will be the point in rolling anyway if you are cheating?).

But all in all I would talk with this guy and not in front of the whole group unless you are definitely convinced that the other players would behave civilised.

It is an OT problem and these problems can only be solved OT and not IT.

First thing you have to do is to make sure what you want to achieve.
In this case a very good target is to make the cheater understand that you and the rest of the group have a problem with cheating. You cannot force him to stop cheating.
That is the first and most important step imho for such a discussion since you want to keep the player and do not want to offend him. Even if he leaves the group then he won't take it personal but accept that the gaming style of the group is too different from his personal gaming style.

So when you are going to confront him keep in mind what you want to achieve.
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154821.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154821.page GMT
He cheats by: rolling the dice without saying what hes doing, and just declaring his success if he manages the roll for whatever he wants to do or just say he was just rolling the dice a bit for nothing if he fails. This is pretty easy to stop by simply telling him that he has to announce what he is doing before he gets to roll for it or the good old "That roll is made by the GM".
He also rolls on a small table next to where he is sitting, or so far away that noone in the group can see what he rolled and then quickly snatches the dice back up proclaming victory. Then he cheats through other means aswell like claiming I had said in the last session that all wounds would heal in the downtime and such, but only if he knows I cant be 100% sure, going to start keeping a better record of events. He also munchkins alot, his characters seems to have all the knowledge of the verse, although often I just simply tell him that something just isnt possible to know and constantly reads every fine printed rule to be able to contridict me as a GM if needed.

The reason I have a hard time confronting him is that most of the time I lack any hard proof of his cheating, since he usually picks up the dice after rolling and such, If I ever caught him red handed It would be alot easier, now he would just feign ignorance and blame me for accusing him.
Another reason why I cant just give him a shouting or throw him of the team is the simple fact that he would take it very personally and we have alot of common friends, it would lead to some conflict within my social circle, also he has been helpfull towards me in the past outside of the game and I feel I owe him a debt still, although that is unrelated to the game itself.

Sofar I find it inevitable that this will lead to a confrontation, but I still have to catch him in a situation where he cant just squirm out of it when confronted.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154827.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154827.page GMT The other players do not like his style of rolling the dice.
So instead of trying to make him understand that the group has a problem with cheating try to make him understand that the group has a problem the way he is rolling the dice.

[quote]Then he cheats through other means aswell like claiming I had said in the last session that all wounds would heal in the downtime and such, but only if he knows I cant be 100% sure, going to start keeping a better record of events.[/quote]

What are the other players doing then? Do they support you or keep quiet? If the other players have a problem with that they will have to back you up. Tell them that!

You can also tell the cheater in a case like this that you made a mistake with this declaration and that it is not valid. Say sorry and go on! Yes, you are the GM but you are a human being either. There is nothing bad about acknowleding mistakes.

You are not the first GM who finds out that some friends are horrible gamers and you won't be the last. Don't worry too much! ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154835.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154835.page GMT
Everytime someone makes a roll have them pick a dice, white gives a -10 modifier, black gives a +10 modifier.

e.g. I roll a 38 and pick a black dice. The roll counts as 48

OR

Have all your players tell you exactly what number they rolled, rather that a "pass or fail". If your cheater can't tell you straight off what he/she rolled, have them roll again.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154872.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154872.page GMT
Cheating is just dumb in an RPG (well in any situation imo) - half the fun comes from failing a roll and the fallout from that, and then how very, very sweet is it when the all important critical is actually rolled?

But for my advice, if you cant confront him or dont want to is:

1. Stop him randomly rolling - tell him, and the other players so it seems fair, that rolls are only taken when you tell them to, and you want the actual results, not pass or fail.

2. Make everyone roll on the table in front of the GM screen

Otherwise, chuck him out.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154880.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/154880.page GMT
And yeah: if the players don't talk back when he say you get stuff..theY're as bad a s him.

]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155006.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155006.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155020.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155020.page GMT 1 - Make him and everyone else declare his rolls, invalidate anything he did not declare
2 - Make him roll ON the table in front of everyone, and make sure everyone else follows to be fair
3 - If you are NOT playing around the table, play around a table so he can't use that little side-table
4 - Tell them ALL NOT to roll dice until you tell them they needs to.
5 - If they WANT to make a roll they ask first, then roll whemn you tell them and use rulle #2 at all times

If he is not hosting the game and raises a stink then boot him, your friends, if they are real friends and certianly the players in the game will understand and take your side. I don't know what the average age of your gaming group is but understand, losing ONE person from your group will NOT kill your social life...and if it does, then they weren't friends worth keeping anyway...

Alternative, if you want to get rid of him:
- Start having opponents use Fate Points to force re-rolls or ignore damage, use psykers to jack wiht his brain, generally make his life miserable, but don't give him more attention than you do the others in fact give him as little attention as possible
- Kill his character, he can only dodge and parry once each as free actions...and he cannot fudge how much damage he TAKES so hit him 10 times for excessive damage, tell him "You've made such a name for yourself that your enemies singled you out for termination....see what happens when you're too good?
- Keep his character seperated from the rest of the team and fighting on his won constantly...everyone else gets to do their own shining time and he can have his masturbatory fun...eventually taper of how much time you spend on HIS activities until he gets pissed off and leaves...
- Have an invisble Daemon (Gremlins!) take a shine to him and follow him around constantly keeping "Weaoon Jinx" active JUST on him...and IT always makes the WP roll to jam the weapon...
- Steal his Girlfriend, if he has one, he'll be so pissed off he'll quit...(okay maybe not as likely but hey)
- End the Game, or at least tell him that, and tell the other players that it's NOT ended and to keep quiet about it (Obviously discuss this ahead of time with them) and continue playing without him. If he asks tell him you've gotten busy with other projects. Then eventually you can 're-start' the game with most of the same players just say his slot got filled and there's no room for him to play.

In short there are tons of ways to get rid of him or deal with him, even if you can't do it directly.
But you NEED to deal with it, at the very least ask the other players for suggestions and how they want to handle it...have one of THEM bring it up or as a group...DEAL wiht it or it will kill your game. You're obviously frustrated, get it done!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155051.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155051.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155173.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155173.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155202.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155202.page GMT
Simple? fairly, does he like it? who gives a flying ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155223.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155223.page GMT ...Point being that I KNOW how painful it can be to deal with troublesome palyers, especially when they are friends...but deal with it ASAP or it will get worse...8P]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155241.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155241.page GMT
Now by this I don't mean never admit mistakes. If you screwed something up and a player legitimatey points it out, be gracious and make a judgement call as to how to fairly correct the mistake.

However, if they bring up an error and you make what you think is a fair ruling to resolve the error, don't let the player keep trying to argue fine points. Your considered judgment is final and if he has a problem with it, tough.

Back in the day, if I caught someone cheating in an RPG, or they persisted in arguing after I told them to stop, then their character would suddenly be hit with a) the first lightning bolt of a suddenly gathering storm, b) a sudden and massive corronary, or c) a toilet seat from the MIR space station. Whether or not the character survived the experience, it generally got the player's attention.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155286.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155286.page GMT
This is what I did to resolve the problem:

1. Made everyone declare rolls and roll in the middle of the table.
2. Made everyone use dice that I could read from where I was standing at the end of the table.
3. Didn't argue rules, if they didn't like my declaration I would just tell them, "Life isn't fair, if you think it's a rules issue bring it up after the game, we're in a session right now." Don't let them waste precious game time.


The cheater stopped for awhile, but he wasn't doing as well, and started cheating again soon by pulling his dice and using barely readable dice. So I confronted him by himself and told him that as the GM I don't brook cheating in my games and that if he wanted to make it appear that he was cheating, by pulling his dice and the like than he could quit. I told him that I didn't need to catch him red handed, since it's my game and I could boot him whenever I wanted to. If he could abide by the rules that all of the other players have no problem following than he could stay.

He chose to quit and bad-mouthed me for a few months. He got booted from the next two games he played in for cheating as well when the GMs asked me if he had cheated in my game.

All he did was make it evident that he was a bad cheater and people saw that. For the first month though a few people weren't sure and would ask me why I was so harsh on the guy. I would tell them honestly, and they'd shrug and go, "Okay."

Don't worry, the truth will shine through, and if people stay on his side they don't deserve to be your friends, and your game will be a thousand times better without the player.

My game had almost foundered because of the cheater (I let it go on for almost two months), and after he was gone we played for another year and a half before two of my four players moved within a month of each other out of state. I still game with the other two.

Oh, and the cheater came back to me a year ago and asked to play in one of my games. I told him he could wait for a spot, and if he even once grabbed his dice I'd kick him out right then at the table. He was cool with that.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155377.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155377.page GMT
However, I don't like it when my players cheat without my encouragement/approval and do so frequently. Mostly because IMO there really shouldn't be a reason for a player to decide to need to cheat in an RPG.

probably seems weird with what I posted earlier, but I felt it needed to be said. sometimes cheating is ok. most of the time--it's a dick move.

here's another option (so I don't digress too much). Tell the other players to cheat too--but cheat by better successes than the other guy. get better effects and whatnot. always have him declare his result first so the others can top each other and it ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155387.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155387.page GMT
Using this method, just don't tell the player the modifiers, and then add or subtract whatever is necessary to render the results of the cheater's rolls into what they should be rather than whatever it is he's claiming.

[edit: This also allows you to somewhat subtly make up for instances when the "dice hate the players" by throwing in random modifiers w/o necessarily revealing what they were. A tool to both help and hurt.]]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155399.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155399.page GMT
I do that too, when I can get away with it. Sometimes the frequency of rolls with 80+ results defy probability ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155401.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155401.page GMT
I do that too, when I can get away with it. Sometimes the frequency of rolls with 80+ results defy probability [/quote]

Well, I sometimes things just go all to hell. I guess that's why its a game instead of just story hour.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155425.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155425.page GMT
I do that too, when I can get away with it. Sometimes the frequency of rolls with 80+ results defy probability [/quote]

Well, I sometimes things just go all to hell. I guess that's why its a game instead of just story hour.[/quote]

I have no problem letting things going to hell. just hate seeing too many decisions based on bad die rolls for my players rather than their choices or my nefarious plans. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155432.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155432.page GMT


On another note: one GM I used to play with kept unruly players in line by keepin a few d30's around to chuck at them whenever they caused problems... ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155497.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155497.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155500.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155500.page GMT Beside i despise cheater and might as well say tht you hit instead of rolling it.

I always cry of enthusiast when i roll something that is like under 10%!!!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155762.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155762.page GMT
a) Any house rules you make get written down as you make them. You repeat back to the group what you wrote down to make sure what you wrote is what you told them. That solves the "You said this" problem

b) Remind the munkin that regardless of what the book says, you have the right to change the rules, as long as you're consistant with the rules. Just because he can find the obscure line in the rulebook that states that all boltguns are black in color, doesn't mean that in your game you can't have some being fire engine red, as long as you're consistant. See rule a on how to help make this consistant.

c) All players declare exactly what they are rolling for, and like many said, roll on the table in front of you. No roll is accepted by you unless you personally see the results. Do not tell them the difficulty of the roll either, so that you can fudge it a bit (geneally to help them out when you screw up, or they just roll bad consistantly, but sometimes to add drama where you failed to add it)

d) as to the "He knows all the lore in the verse" that's your fault. They have lore skills for a reason, and honestly, no one can be a combat god and a lore god until much later. It assumes you're allowing his OOC knowledge to blend with his IC knowledge. This also assumes that you're not sure what skills he has and doesn't have when it comes to lore, as simply if he doesn't have daemonology lore he shouldn't know jack about that daemon that is chewing on his leg, other then it hurts him. If he tries to claim he does, tell him to role on the skill. Since he doesn't have it, and since its an advanced skill, guess he doesn't know it.

e) If after all of this happens, it doesn't work, you're going ot have to kick him or end the game. Sorry, but if you're afraid all of your friends will leave you because you kicked him out over a game, then to be honest they weren't very good friends anyway. If he can't understand that his disruptive behavior is ruining the fun of the other players, or you, then he's not much of a friend either.

f) remove that silly stupid side table. Don't even have it near him anymore. What isn't there he can't use. Barring that, have another player sit there from now on during your games.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155908.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155908.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155929.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/155929.page GMT
It's your job to ensure a good time is had by all the players. Call the guy out and be firm, you never know, you could be doing him a favor he may just learn that he can have fun without cheating. As it stands now you are losing the respect of the entire group and that will doom your game.[/quote]

I think this is a good summary of what i think is most important. it is the Gm job not only to provide the in game atmosphere but also to make it enjoyable for all parciptiants outside the game it self. Group dynamics and how to create a functionable gaming group is one of the most important things in a GMs job, but one we speak very little of, ostly because it is so difficult to do.

Remember one thing, players there is plenty of (which most can be teached into being good, whatever good players are), good gamemasters is few and far between. Go figure ....]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156269.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156269.page GMT Go figure ....[/quote] I disagree, almost all the poeple I really enjoy as plyers are also great GM's. I only know a few people who are good players but poor (or non) GMs.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156295.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156295.page GMT
That's what I would do, should stop the die rolling cheating.

In regard to the rest, maybe suggest that he stops complaining or tries running a game as GM, making sure that you as a Player act the same way as he does and when he complains you point out its what he does all the time.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156309.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156309.page GMT
Confront him and kick him if he dislikes the idea of playing for fun instead of playing for grief.

Man, roleplaying is a nice hobby, but if the group is held together by a cheater it isn´t worth the effort, you´re fighting in a hopeless battle.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156394.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156394.page GMT
Lucky you! My experience is that it is few who can take the time and dedication to be a GM, but they have enough time and inspiration to be rewarding players. I think nearly everyone who has the ability to enjoy a rpg as a player also have the potential to become a GM, but it is fewer who takes the time to actually do it, especially when you get some years behind you (wives, houses, childern, jobs....)

My problem as a GM is not finding players, it is to find a suitable combination to lift the game.

But this is thread hijacking so I stop speaking now...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156451.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/156451.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157490.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157490.page GMT Go figure ....[/quote] I disagree, almost all the poeple I really enjoy as plyers are also great GM's. I only know a few people who are good players but poor (or non) GMs.[/quote]

I've had a similar experience to Agmar's. I genuinely require all of my players to be competent GMs. Generally, GM players are more considerate and more careful when dealing with what you are writing. Effectively, they tend to be more giving.

Really, I know ONE player who is a poor GM who still manages to be a good player.

Honestly, in this day and age I think defining one's self as "just a player" is like saying "I only like to receive presents".]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157541.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157541.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157602.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157602.page GMT I've had a similar experience to Agmar's. I genuinely require all of my players to be competent GMs. Generally, GM players are more considerate and more careful when dealing with what you are writing. Effectively, they tend to be more giving. [/quote]

Hehe .. It can work both ways, I know I can be annoying as a player due to I produce more background and ideas than some of my GM, who get some kind of .... jealousy feeling or something, like I taking something away from them instead of reinforcing them. So I tries to curb that somewhat these days.

[quote=Bubonicus]
Really, I know ONE player who is a poor GM who still manages to be a good player.
[/quote]

I know heaps and heaps of really good roleplayers (and I still put a question sign of what a good player really is) who has done lousy stints as GMs or not really tried it.

But one reason is that our little community here has been blessed over the years with several really really good GMs who have had an intimidating effect (perhaps) on the "common" players (and also have had the effect that it hasn't been any real need for more GMs, as when you are past the teens you can only have that much time for RPGs.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157840.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157840.page GMT
"Upon finally meeting the demon, it conjures forth (number of players) indistinct humanoid forms that seem to warp and twist into different shapes as you try to look at them."

Then have the players fight themselves - but with a significant minus (-20? and half damage) call it a minus to hit them cos they are warping.
But they are really rolling for the demonic copies.

If his (her?) cheating is bad enough to get round the penalties then he's dead. And might learn.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157907.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/157907.page GMT Rule 2 : If GM IS wrong see Rule 1.


I know what it is to have a cheater in the gruop so all you have to do is listen to all of the replys in this tread and pick the reply you are most satisfied with and follow it. Cheaters destroys all the fun int the game and as I see it the game is about having fun with your friends right? ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176722.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176722.page GMT
That said, being the GM does not make it "your" game, it is the group's game. I know, the GM puts more effort into it than anybody else in many if not most cases, and yes, the GM is in charge of the "story," if there is one (as opposed to "sandbox" games), but that in no way makes the GM's fun any more important than that of anybody else sitting at the table. The GM is in charge of the rules not because he's better than the players, but simply because someone has to be. Now, it may turn out that people that GM become "better" players (whatever that is), but GMing is in no way a requirement to be a "good" player or roleplayer. In fact, I'd make the argument that GMing actually works to inhibit roleplaying to a small extent, because the GM by necessity must devote far more time to mechanics.

So, yeah, long story short, GMs aren't better just because they're GMs, don't get caught in that trap, and by the God-Emperour, gaming elitists make me sick and should you as well.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176754.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176754.page GMT
That said, being the GM does not make it "your" game, it is the group's game. I know, the GM puts more effort into it than anybody else in many if not most cases, and yes, the GM is in charge of the "story," if there is one (as opposed to "sandbox" games), but that in no way makes the GM's fun any more important than that of anybody else sitting at the table. The GM is in charge of the rules not because he's better than the players, but simply because someone has to be. Now, it may turn out that people that GM become "better" players (whatever that is), but GMing is in no way a requirement to be a "good" player or roleplayer. In fact, I'd make the argument that GMing actually works to inhibit roleplaying to a small extent, because the GM by necessity must devote far more time to mechanics.

So, yeah, long story short, GMs aren't better just because they're GMs, don't get caught in that trap, and by the God-Emperour, gaming elitists make me sick and should you as well.[/quote]


Hi Ty, (Oh God not this guy again )

If the GM made the effort to create encounters and such, then technically it is his game. Same goes with buying a store-bought and running it (But enough of that). The game should be enjoyed by all the players, and from the original post, it sounds like the other players have just lapsed off to the side while the grand-standing dice fudger is running rampant. I believe it is the GM's job to run a fair game where everyone has an enjoyable evening, so as Moderator, it is his (or her) responsibility to confront the fudger and set him (or her) straight about the rules. On the plus side, I agree with you on elitist-jerk gamers who wish to expound nightly on their vast gaming prowess!

Our Wednesday group has a table rule that everyone must GM something (if only to give the other GM 's an opportunity to refresh themselves, work up some new material and be ready when it's their time in "the monkey seat")


P.S. You will note that there is 100% less flaming in this post! YOU WIN SIR!! ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176795.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176795.page GMT
Then again I've been told I'm so blunt I make a sledge hammer look sharp. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176962.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176962.page GMT
I don't have time for cheaters in my games. Period. For that matter I don't have room for them on my table, in my house, near my fridge or anywhere near my beer.

That said, I've seen plenty of occasions at the Gaming Centre over the years where good friends don't want to upset other good friends, so they accept that they cheat. I usually recommend that they give them their keycard and pin while they're at it too since why stop at cheating you in your game

So we've ruled out confronting the Unclean and you don't want to burn them for risk of what ever tears, frustration, back lash that might follow. I'd go with the everyone rolls for the person to their right, with rolls made onto the table where they are clearly visible to everyone - I've recommended in the Centre a few times and it's led to some amusement as friends plead with one another to roll 'well'.

We've found that's the quickest and easiest one, since it doesn't require any other mojo.

Personally I'd still drag the heretic aside and ask WTF! Let them know that you take it personally that they would cheat - since that ruins the game for everyone.

If that fails, Burn the Heretic, Kill the Mutant, Purge the Unclean... take your pick

Ash]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176978.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/176978.page GMT I'd go with the everyone rolls for the person to their right, with rolls made onto the table where they are clearly visible to everyone - I've recommended in the Centre a few times and it's led to some amusement as friends plead with one another to roll 'well'.

We've found that's the quickest and easiest one, since it doesn't require any other mojo.

*snip*[/quote]
You know I'm still very much partial to the direct honest approach but that is a hell of an idea there. Might make for some fun moments.

---

On a tangent with that idea, I've been trying to think up more subtle effects of the group's Psyker rolling a 9. I think that might be my first one. For a short time the players now have a small link to the fate of their fellow Acolytes. Perhaps even imposing small penalties or bonuses on any roll in which the rolling player is against or supportive of.

At first they might not notice it but eventually they could realize that any negativity they present (towards the ideas of their allies) can actually effect the outcome of the action itself.

[i]For example if one player wants to kick down a locked door, and the rolling player voices that he thinks it's a terrible idea, it might impose a 5% penalty to the roll and if he fails enough, perhaps the player recieves a nasty hurt ankle for his efforts.[/i]

Hm, love this idea.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177011.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177011.page GMT
]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177082.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177082.page GMT
Here's a few considerations and ideas I have....
This is based on my own experience (which is almost always gaming with "friends" that I socialize with outside of the game and whom I like for reasons other than the fact they are in the role-playing group).

1) Consider why they feel "winning" is such an important thing to them that they'd cheat. I'm no psychologist, but maybe they are unhappy with their own lives or have low self esteem issues. If those are the case, hammering them for cheating may not be the best way to deal with this. If the other players are noticing the cheating, maybe write an adventure that really focuses on that character and that the party will rally around them. Have it go well for them and give them a solid reward at the end (not necessarily money or a weapon - more like a goal they've expressed in play, or a tight bond with an NPC they admire). Let the other players know you're doing this - because you have a friend who seems to need a hand. The goal? To show him you all care, will support him and be behind him. They may not "get it"....but then again, they might.

2) If you don't go for that touchy-feely crud, waste the sucker. If you think he's cheating ridiculously, take him out quick. Surprise attacks. Traps that hit only him. It doesn't always need to be harm - he can be pinned, separated, whatever. Remove him from the action....if that isn't getting the point across you may need to get even more forceful.

3) Fight fire with fire - If he hits all the time, they hit all the time. If he dodges all the time, they dodge all the time. If he makes all his skill roles, then have the NPCs "become uncooperative" or things break unexpectedly so it doesn't work out anyway. After a while of feeling utterly futile, he might get the point. If you play fair, we all will. If you don't, every opponent of yours will also be as miraculously successfully. Nature seeks a balance.

4) For some reason they are seeing the game as "competetive". Try running a few more "cooperative" type scenarios where thinking and reasoning determine victory more than the dice.

5) Sit at a dining table and have everyone roll where everyone else can clearly see. If this isn't practical, run the more climactic encounters that way. You may even say "this is such a critical combat, all rolls - even mine - are going to be right here. Let the fates fall as they may...."

A few thoughts from a gamesmaster who's been doing this for more years than I'd care to admit...

]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177475.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177475.page GMT
"I'm not afraid of you 5, my friend here will take ALL of you! You'd best make things right with the God-Emperor, cuz Joe never misses!" or perhaps the more dangerous comment to an Ecclesiarch, "Im not too concerned about Daemons appearing, the way Joe shoots I think he's got more fate backing than they do..."

You wanted the reputation, Gunslinger, well...now you've got it...]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177656.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177656.page GMT )

If the GM made the effort to create encounters and such, then technically it is his game. Same goes with buying a store-bought and running it (But enough of that). The game should be enjoyed by all the players, and from the original post, it sounds like the other players have just lapsed off to the side while the grand-standing dice fudger is running rampant. I believe it is the GM's job to run a fair game where everyone has an enjoyable evening, so as Moderator, it is his (or her) responsibility to confront the fudger and set him (or her) straight about the rules. On the plus side, I agree with you on elitist-jerk gamers who wish to expound nightly on their vast gaming prowess!

Our Wednesday group has a table rule that everyone must GM something (if only to give the other GM 's an opportunity to refresh themselves, work up some new material and be ready when it's their time in "the monkey seat")


P.S. You will note that there is 100% less flaming in this post! YOU WIN SIR!! [/quote]

Hi. Good to see you again. (As a note, I actually quite enjoyed the last discussion, but then I took philosophy in college because I like to argue )

Sorry, my post was kinda off-topic. I fully agree that the players and GM should confront the cheater, and that the GM is responsible for enforcing the "fairness" of the game via the rules. My post was more of a response to the trend in this thread towards "The only good players are the ones that either kowtow to the GM's whim or GM themselves." No one out and out said it, but I've seen the same chain in other gaming discussions, and I wanted to preempt it. It seems that all too often, players need an advocate against GMs, people that are supposed to be friends.

I will agree that GMing games makes you more aware of the work that the GM puts into the game, and that might make you more respectful of following his story. But like I say, I run more sandbox-type games, because I don't believe that it's the GM's place to tell the players "You can't/wouldn't do that," unless it's obviously out of character metagaming. In other words, just because I put together a hive adventure doesn't mean that the acolytes can't book passage to the feral world. They just need to be aware that they're entering uncharted territory and things won't be as polished as they would be otherwise (that I'm going to have to make stuff up as they go along for the rest of the session). And those that have GMed recognize that they've done something I didn't expect, and are usually willing to cut me the necessary slack.

As far as it's technically the GM's game... it's technically his [i]story[/i] or his [i]world[/i], but it's the group's [i]game[/i]. It's semantics/splitting hairs, yes, but it's an important distinction, in my mind anyway.

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled discussion. Sorry for the derailment.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177973.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/177973.page GMT Ive had the same problem as you ive been a DM of Ars Magica for over 12 years now. Ive had people cheat alot and most of them i considered freinds too.

Through trial and error i started to ignore it, then tried to just kill off there characters or harm them to they got the point, and finally i confronted them.
Though i knew it wasnt going to end good, which it didnt, my now ex freind defended himself claiming he didnt cheat.
Was my word against him, caused all sorts of problems in that time, and finally sorted itself out when he left in anger claiming i was victomising him.
I felt bad but realised that in the endyou cant let it go on, it brings your game down, upsets your players, and most importantly for you.. it makes you feel like its your fault that your not being a great DM.

So for what its worth i know what you go through.
Its best in the end to face the person, give them the choice to play fair and clean like everyone else or find another game somewhere else.

I hope it works out for you.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/178163.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/178163.page GMT
His big hits do.... nothing.

Just roll madly behind the screens and declare that there was not effect (or small scratches).


I.e. Cheat Right Back. Because cheaters are breaking the social contract implied when you play the game - that you'll follow the rules. If you can't follow the rules then why play the game.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/178222.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/178222.page GMT
New Table Rule: [i]if you touch the dice before I see it, it doesn't count. If you roll where no-one can see it, it doesn't count. And that holds for everyone including the GM.[/i]]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/178225.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/178225.page GMT
As the GM, your authority is absolute. You do not only have final say, but also first say, and all say in between. You do not owe your players anything, they have no inalienable rights in relation to you. Theirs is solely the choice whether they want to play in your group or not, a choice you can take away from them at any time should you get fed up with them.

I have prohibited players from playing certain characters because I have felt that the character concept in question would be detrimental to the campaign. I have dealt XP penalties on the fly when a player didn't behave (not as in bad roleplaying, but as in inappropriate behaviour from the player). I have changed the rules on the fly when a player has tried to exploit a loophole, giving no compensation to the prospective powergamer who found himself to have bought a pig in a sack with the unexpected new rules. I have even prohibited characters from doing certain things in the game, when I have felt it to both be detrimental to the campaign and at odds with the established personality of the character.

And yet my players love my GMing. Be stern but fair, there is no other proper way to run a campaign. Even a particular one of my players, one who used to be a troublesome case in the past, has come to agree with me on that.


Now, as for the actual problems at hand,


If you can't catch him red-handed and prove that he cheats, shift the burden of proof! Revoke the assumption of innocence, state clearly that any claim by him is null and void unless provable. Dice rolls will have to be visible to all, or count as invalid. If he has a suspicious amount of cash on his character, request him to account where he got every single throne!

As for rules-lawyering, do not let him or anyone else get the idea that the rules are a contract between the GM and the players. The rules are only in force because the GM says so; and if he says something different, then they aren't. If the rulebook is the law; the GM is the judge, the jury, the supreme court and the legislative body.

As for his character using information which only he as a player has but the character wouldn't (known as "information metagaming"), just plain out forbid him to act on that information! Yeah, that's right, you're the GM - your players need your approval simply to be allowed to play their own characters. If he acts on information his character doesn't have, just say "No, you don't!", and accept no rationalizations for why the character still would do that.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182484.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182484.page GMT It's only absolute so long as the players are happy. GMs can fall faster than banana republics. Try that crap with some groups and you'd be out on your ass regardless of being a 'great GM' or not. The social group comes first, and if you're an ass - as such "my way or the highway" style often announces - you may find yourself on the highway before you know it.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182489.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182489.page GMT
I'm not worried about players leaving my group due to disagreement about my GMing style. If there is irreconcilable difference, I fully expect them to get out to save me the trouble of throwing them out on their ears.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182506.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182506.page GMT I've seen it done both ways. I've kicked a GM out of a game an the campaign went on and was better for it. This one contrary defeats your absolute statement. ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182580.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182580.page GMT I've seen it done both ways. I've kicked a GM out of a game an the campaign went on and was better for it. This one contrary defeats your absolute statement. [/quote]

He's right. You're wrong. There, all better now? ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182586.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182586.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182646.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182646.page GMT Rule 2 : If GM IS wrong see Rule 1.
[/quote]


In other words... Use the 10 Commandments...

[quote][b]Ten Commandments of the Sadistic DM[/b]

The Ten Commandments of the sadistic DM (is there really another kind?) are undeniable (should anyone deny them, refer to number 6) and holy truths that every DM should instill (or force) into their players so that the role-playing experience may be enhanced and become more enjoyable to the game’s most important person – the DM. (Should ANY player think otherwise, refer to number 6).

I – Thy players shall have no other DMs before thee. (Should they defy you, refer to number 6)

II – Thy players shall make for themselves a carved image in the likeness of the DM and they shall bow down to him and serve him. (If they refuse, refer to number 6)

III – Thy players shall not take the name of the Lord the DM in vain. (If they refuse, refer to number 6)

IV – Remember the Role-playing Day, and keep it holy. (Otherwise, refer to number 6)

V – Thy Players shall honor the official playing rules, thou shall not honor them, for ye shall twist them in thy favor. (If thy players refuse or complain, or if ye believe they are even Thinking of it, refer to number 6)

[b]VI – Thou shalt kill thy player’s characters whenever they question thy judgement. (And if the monster is defeated, refer to number 5)[/b]

VII – Thou shalt forget any and all information that might give the player’s characters an opportunity. (And should they complain, refer to number 6)

VIII – Thou shalt steal thy player’s character’s favorite magic items whenever you feel they have an advantage over thy monsters. (Should they be smart or lucky, refer to number 5, and if still you fail, refer to number 6)

IX – Thy Non-Player Characters shall not bear false witness against your player characters, unless it suits thy needs. (Such needs shall always pertain to number 6)

X – Thy players shall not covet the DM’s dice (loaded is holy), they shall not covet the DM’s position, nor anything that is the DM’s. (Should they covet thy blood in vengeance for what they believe is abusing your power, refer to number 911)

Finally… any confrontation or complaint (real or imagined) that is not covered by these ten holy principles shall be dealt with… well, by referring to number 6.[/quote]]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182802.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182802.page GMT http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182989.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/182989.page GMT
My "job" is to make them [i]want[/i] to do the entertaining thing. I'm not there to please myself any less than them, and the other way around. Character weaknesses are interesting, an opportunity for roleplay. Talents and gear are primarily tools for storytelling.

If it doesn't work out, we have a talk about it, and if that fails it's time to consider closing the whole thing down and continue with something else. The key to a great campaign often lies in group composition, as I believe player chemistry defines the limits of what can be done with a particular story and setting.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/183023.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/183023.page GMT
I agree, and also do not know any GM like that. I simply posted them as a humorous anecdote.

But one thing about them does hold true to some extent... The GM is God of his campaign. He can change the rules as he sees fit, in order to make the experience more enjoyable/dramatic/interesting/etc for his players. And the players should know this, and refrain from trying to rules-lawyer the GM. Discussing a rule is one thing... Argueing after the GM has made the decision is another.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/184335.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/184335.page GMT
Basically, yeah, the GM can change the rules. But since the rules are the only things the players can know for semi-certain about the world, a good GM should give players plenty of notice whenever possible. After all, how would you feel if you were a soldier and suddenly gunpowder doesn't burn, or a HALO jumper and gravity suddenly isn't -9.8 m/s2?]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/184938.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/184938.page GMT
Simple.

Cheating never gave anyone a good time.

If they continue to cheat... Well, kill them again.

The agony of making a new character will soon make them realise the error of their ways.

Kill, kill, kill!!!!

To cheat is to die in my games. That is why the rules cater for fate points. If they don't want to play by the rules, then they don't want to have fun. They want to win, at any cost. Well that cost is their life.

As a game master it is your responsibility to equalise the experience of fun. If that is not maintained then you are being too soft. 40k is not soft. It has no tolerence.

HAVE NO TOLERENCE!!!!!!]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/187584.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/187584.page GMT

Point worth mentioning, you wouldn't even have to kill their character in-game.

*cheating dude is caught cheating*
[b]GM:[/b] Dude, you lose one fate point permanently.
[b]Cheating dude:[/b] Huh?
[b]GM:[/b] You lose one fate point permanently.
[b]Cheating dude:[/b] Huh? Why? Did I die?
[b]GM:[/b] No.
[b]Cheating dude:[/b] Then how come I lose a fate point?
[b]GM:[/b] Because I say so, and I'm the GM, and I don't like cheating.]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/188731.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/188731.page GMT
[quote][b]Ten Commandments of the Sadistic DM[/b]

The Ten Commandments of the sadistic DM (is there really another kind?) are undeniable (should anyone deny them, refer to number 6) and holy truths that every DM should instill (or force) into their players so that the role-playing experience may be enhanced and become more enjoyable to the game’s most important person – the DM. (Should ANY player think otherwise, refer to number 6).

I – Thy players shall have no other DMs before thee. (Should they defy you, refer to number 6)

II – Thy players shall make for themselves a carved image in the likeness of the DM and they shall bow down to him and serve him. (If they refuse, refer to number 6)

III – Thy players shall not take the name of the Lord the DM in vain. (If they refuse, refer to number 6)

IV – Remember the Role-playing Day, and keep it holy. (Otherwise, refer to number 6)

V – Thy Players shall honor the official playing rules, thou shall not honor them, for ye shall twist them in thy favor. (If thy players refuse or complain, or if ye believe they are even Thinking of it, refer to number 6)

[b]VI – Thou shalt kill thy player’s characters whenever they question thy judgement. (And if the monster is defeated, refer to number 5)[/b]

VII – Thou shalt forget any and all information that might give the player’s characters an opportunity. (And should they complain, refer to number 6)

VIII – Thou shalt steal thy player’s character’s favorite magic items whenever you feel they have an advantage over thy monsters. (Should they be smart or lucky, refer to number 5, and if still you fail, refer to number 6)

IX – Thy Non-Player Characters shall not bear false witness against your player characters, unless it suits thy needs. (Such needs shall always pertain to number 6)

X – Thy players shall not covet the DM’s dice (loaded is holy), they shall not covet the DM’s position, nor anything that is the DM’s. (Should they covet thy blood in vengeance for what they believe is abusing your power, refer to number 911)

Finally… any confrontation or complaint (real or imagined) that is not covered by these ten holy principles shall be dealt with… well, by referring to number 6.[/quote][/quote]




Hehe well something like that but maybe not neccecarily autokill the char. But give him/her a permanent reminder of what happens if you cheat. Maybe a pair of crappy cybernetick lungs due to a very nasty wound in that region for example. I heard from one of my friends that he gave the cheater a -20 int permanently due to a boltshot that connected wht the cheating players head Can anyone say plastic skull Anyway Vinterdrake you must deal whit this immediatly or else it will only go downhill and everybody will lose heart for the game. So in swedish : Stå på dig mannen och bråkar han så skit bara i honomk nästa gång ni spelar. Lycka till ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/188801.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/188801.page GMT ]]> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/188838.page http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/preList/7854/188838.page GMT