What would you look like as a character in Dark Heresy?

Sanguine wrote:As the rules of DH give the human genetic potential to be between 20 and 60 I would excpect there to be a bit more spread in abilities in real life, and a few more people with abilities above in the +40's. Seriously if you have a PhD (depending on what it is in) I would think your Int should be above 40.

That just means you can have a skill (or more than one, depending on the knowledge area) with +10 or +20, it doesn't mean you're intelligent. I know plenty of idiots with PhDs, take a look around your closest university if you need an exemple or give a critical look through academic articles.

Ooooh, interesting thread.

I'll put my stats up...

Home world: Agricultural
Career: Adept

WS 22
BS 24
S 36
T 30
Ag 20
Int 47
Per 37
WP 30
Fel 30

Male, Stocky, 6’4”, 350lbs, tan skin, light brown hair, grey eyes, Electoos.
Divination: ‘Truth is subjective’.
Melancholic and sanguine.

Corruption: 34 (soiled)
Malignancy – poor health, Mutation – corpulent

Insanity: 38 (Unsettled)
Compulsions – minor (Alcohol), acute (Food)

Traits:
Hagiography, Liturgical familiarity

Skills:
Awareness
Carouse
Command
Common Lore (Administratum +10)
Deceive +10
Drive (ground vehicle +10)
Evaluate
Forbidden Lore (Archaeotech, Cults, Heresy, Xenos)
Inquiry +10
Literacy +20
Logic
Perform (Orate)
Scholastic Lore (Archaic +20, Astromancy, Beasts +10, Heraldry, Judgement, Legend +10, Philosophy +10, Occult, Tactica Imperialis +10)
Swim
Tech use
Trade (Cook, Artist, Cartographer, Copyist)

Talents:
Air of Authority
Ambidextrous
Decadence
Foresight
Jaded
Orthoproxy
Paranoia
Peer (Academics, Administratum)

Heh, I'd be either shot or turned into a servitor for being a Heretek or I'd be a mix of Arbites/Tech Priest...

I am statistically and visually indistinguishable from a Nurgling.

WS 20
BS 30
S 21
T 23
Ag 60
In 25
WP 30
Fel 25

Skills: Concealment +10%, Dodge Blow, Perception, Silent Move, Speak Arcane Language (Baltimorean Dialect), Speak Language (Dark Tongue), Swim

Talents: Ambidextrous, Daemonic Aura, Fearless, Night Vision, Unsettling

Special Rules:
- Chaos Mutation: Cloud of Flies
- Instability
- Plague

Armour: None
Armour Points: 0 in all locations
Weapons Claws & Teeth (SB -2)

Sanguine wrote:Nah, my BS is definately +50 (Marksman score on my last test)

Isn't this superior to the average Space Marine scout or Imperial Stormtrooper?

Her, good question. What would I be if I were a character in Dark heresy?

Career: Servitor
Home World: Mind Wiped.
Divination: A Mind Without Purpose will Wander in Dark Places.

WS - 00 (not needed for simple tasks that trained monkeys are too expensive to preform)
BS - 00 (that part of the brain had to be removed).
S - 10 (strength is unnecessary to it's primary functions).
T - 50 (mostly due to the desk it's attached to)
Ag - 15 (it was never a particularly coordinated unit though advanced cognitors and servo-stabilizers has increased it's hand/eye coordination considerably)
Int - 05 (a few of it's tasks does require rudimentary decision making functionality within clearly defined parameters).
Per - 20 (most of it's interpretive brain had to be removed due to excessive damage and atrophy).
WP - 30 (after conversion and the replacement of most of the dead and damaged portions of the subjects mind, the subject was far less prone to suggestibility and was able to finally stay on task).
Fel- 05 (an interesting tool)

Skills:
Repetitive task a trained monkey could do

Talents:
Doing that thing a trained monkey could do
Machine

The 40k universe is a cold and unforgiving one.. damn it all!

WS 30
BS 22 (Don't give me a gun... I could manage to shoot myself while aiming the barrel away from me)
Str 32
T 38 (I'm tough, my bones are solid and my skin is hard to slice open)
Ag 30
Int 32
Per 33
WP 30
Fel 34

Age: 25 6'0", 200 lbs. (For now... I seams to be able to loose and gain bettween 5 to 15 pounds in 1 month)

Basic Skills:
Inquiry +10
Scrutiny +20
Swim
Silent Move +10
Deceived +10
Charm

Advanced Skills:
Speak Language: Low Gothic
Speak Language: Local barbaric dialect (French lol)
Ciphers (Body Language)
Common Lore: Politics
Common Lore: Economics
Common Lore: History
Scholastic Lore: Phylosophy
Scholastic Lore: Human Psychology
Drive (Ground Vehicle) +10
Land Navigation +10
Literacy +10
Tech-Use +10
Perform (Oration) +10

Talents:
Die Hard (Fell 10 meters directly on my head, no bruise, heavy head-ache. Multiple witnesses)
Hatred (Emo kids... Not kidding! and kids in generals)
Peer (Humans, but not emos, never really knew why but people says I eradiate an aura of comfort...)
Hardy
Frenzy

Insanity Point: 20
Corruption Point: 15

Bubonicus wrote:

Sanguine wrote:Nah, my BS is definately +50 (Marksman score on my last test)

Isn't this superior to the average Space Marine scout or Imperial Stormtrooper?

And it represents a lot of practise and real world experience.

Saying that, in the game I GM with 2 space marines in it they were both forced to max out a either BS or WS and WP. I feel the idea of a SM with a WP in the 30's to be unrealistic. The few SAS soldiers I have had the honour of knowing I would say their WP is in the 50's. You just dont pass SAS selection and training if it isnt. So given how the SMs are supposed to have the hardest/best training and hypnoindoctrination etc, I just cant see them not having a WP in the 50's either.

Sanguine wrote:

Bubonicus wrote:

Sanguine wrote:Nah, my BS is definately +50 (Marksman score on my last test)

Isn't this superior to the average Space Marine scout or Imperial Stormtrooper?

And it represents a lot of practise and real world experience.

Saying that, in the game I GM with 2 space marines in it they were both forced to max out a either BS or WS and WP. I feel the idea of a SM with a WP in the 30's to be unrealistic. The few SAS soldiers I have had the honour of knowing I would say their WP is in the 50's. You just dont pass SAS selection and training if it isnt. So given how the SMs are supposed to have the hardest/best training and hypnoindoctrination etc, I just cant see them not having a WP in the 50's either.

You would need high WP just to join the regular army (Especially 101 RA, I hear the currant CO is an NBC nut

)

Sanguine wrote:

Bubonicus wrote:

Sanguine wrote:Nah, my BS is definately +50 (Marksman score on my last test)

Isn't this superior to the average Space Marine scout or Imperial Stormtrooper?

And it represents a lot of practise and real world experience.

Saying that, in the game I GM with 2 space marines in it they were both forced to max out a either BS or WS and WP. I feel the idea of a SM with a WP in the 30's to be unrealistic. The few SAS soldiers I have had the honour of knowing I would say their WP is in the 50's. You just dont pass SAS selection and training if it isnt. So given how the SMs are supposed to have the hardest/best training and hypnoindoctrination etc, I just cant see them not having a WP in the 50's either.

Hmm... even in the case of the SAS, Mossad, etc. I have a hard time imagining them being even vaguely comparable to a Space Marine. I'm not saying there aren't freaky badasses with oodles of specialized training in the real world (which at best would be comparable to Imperial Guard Stormtrooper, I'd guess). A Space Marine isn't that. A Space Marine is Captain America in a neurally-attached suit of futuristic power armor who basically lives in a state of constant war sometimes for as long as 10,000 years. I am confident in saying that such warriors as Space Marines have not existed on this planet.

If someone on this forum can claim Space Marine level combat skills based on the scale provided in the DH rulebook the stat scale needs serious, serious revision.

Bubonicus wrote:

If someone on this forum can claim Space Marine level combat skills based on the scale provided in the DH rulebook the stat scale needs serious, serious revision.

Indeed.

Luddite wrote:

Bubonicus wrote:

If someone on this forum can claim Space Marine level combat skills based on the scale provided in the DH rulebook the stat scale needs serious, serious revision.

Indeed.

No Im claiming the Space Marines are probably underpowered in the current game mechanics.

I worked out my, and my colleagues, BS based on the Mechanics in the book and the percentages that we hit. Anyway I run the percentages with bonuses or penalties listed in the book, It still works out that my, and my colleagues, BS is +50. So either the game mechanics are broken and do not reflect real life (in which case this thread becomes pointless) or that due to the fear of "power gaming" some DH characters are not being allowed to be as good as they should be.

Sanguine wrote:

Luddite wrote:

Bubonicus wrote:

If someone on this forum can claim Space Marine level combat skills based on the scale provided in the DH rulebook the stat scale needs serious, serious revision.

Indeed.

No Im claiming the Space Marines are probably underpowered in the current game mechanics.

I worked out my, and my colleagues, BS based on the Mechanics in the book and the percentages that we hit. Anyway I run the percentages with bonuses or penalties listed in the book, It still works out that my, and my colleagues, BS is +50. So either the game mechanics are broken and do not reflect real life (in which case this thread becomes pointless) or that due to the fear of "power gaming" some DH characters are not being allowed to be as good as they should be.

So we are basically in agreement that something is either overpowered, understatted, or inconsistent?

Are the stats in the RPG similar to the wargame in any way? I mean, is a +50 strength roughly a 5 strength? Is a +50 BS basically a 5 BS? Or is the scale totally different?

So if a 'normal' human can have +50.....what sort of plusses does a Bloodthirster get?

What about an Alpha+ psyker?

Luddite wrote:So if a 'normal' human can have +50.....what sort of plusses does a Bloodthirster get?

What about an Alpha+ psyker?

As the DH rules work a normal Human can have sats up to 60. 31 is only the average starting stat for a charcter with only 400xp. All my players bought up their primary stats that related to their characters role as quickly as they could, so they had a few stats in the high 40's low 50's (depending on the starting stat), that is in the rules.

For a Bloodthirster? Well for S and T and A, I guess they would have the unnatural trait possibly twice (again this is in the rules), making them stroner and tougher than the PtU Marine (being the only offical SM we have to look at yet).

The thing is with BS if you can hit 100% of the time (with the bonuses listed in the book) you can hit 100% of the time. It doesnt matter if it is a 9 year old girl, a modern day soldier, a 40k SM or a Bloodthirster of Khorn.

As for TT stats crossing over to DH I understand it is not a direct crossover. In that 5 on TT does not neccesarily = 50 in DH. But others here can explain this better than me I think.

Just because you go to a range and hit 100% of your shots on the target doesnt give you a 100 BS. Hell you could get a perfect shot score with a 40% ballistic skill or lower. It just depends on the rolls that day.

Remember, with the erratta you can now get up to +60 to any skill test. That includes BS and WS.

The system works fine. People are just assuming the have better skills then they actually do.

Im dont mean to offend anyone, but seriously thats how I see it.

I agree. It is only natural to see yourself better than what you really are.

OTOH, most modern day soldiers (and those who post here who are veterans of some conflicts) are not 400XP characters. It wouldn't surprise me to know that they're 2000-5000XP characters.

Most people nowadays exit basic training far better off than a starting IG. Everyone is generally well fed, and recieves modest medical treatment. Remember, the 40k universe is a smattering of fantastic tech and really shitty tech. A Modern M16 is probably the equivallent of a Good or Excellent Quality Autogun. Most people in the 40K universe probably survived some horrific childhood disease or trauma. I doubt there are even Gyms in this universe, so all that physical prowress is the result of a stressful life.

Also, running numbers like this isn't really how the system was designed. It was designed with a feel in mind. So ask yourself, when you give yourself a BS of 50, are you more than human? Cuz that's "Magnificent" even, perhaps, "Heroic." (DH p23).

(Edit = Stupid Quote)

Maethalion wrote:I agree. It is only natural to see yourself better than what you really are.

OTOH, most modern day soldiers (and those who post here who are veterans of some conflicts) are not 400XP characters. It wouldn't surprise me to know that they're 2000-5000XP characters.

Well I am a Sergeant so I guess that puts me in at anywhere from 2000XP-2999XP.

Im also a Veteran of Iraq/Afghanistan so that puts me at 3000XP-5,999XP.

LOL.

Maethalion wrote:I agree. It is only natural to see yourself better than what you really are.

Thats the thing, I think a lot of people dont think they are as good as they should be if put into DH stats.

peacekeeper_b wrote:Well I am a Sergeant so I guess that puts me in at anywhere from 2000XP-2999XP.

Im also a Veteran of Iraq/Afghanistan so that puts me at 3000XP-5,999XP.

LOL.

Vet of UNISOM, Somalia '93, 2 tours of Iraq, one as private security.

The only stats I was commenting on are the ones that you can compare with what can be quantitatively known about yourself to what the book gives.

As for the BS, yes if you've only shot 10 rounds in your entire life with a good rifle, +10, aim +20 at a statitc target +30 (+60 total to hit as max bonus) and your BS is 30, then the odds are you should miss one of the those 10 shots. if you hit all ten then its not a particularily big statistical fluke. IF on the other hand you can look at 1000s of rounds fired in a lot of different training, hunting and combat situations, then compare your known hit rates to the bonus and penality combinations according to the DH rules and still decide that the statistics would indicate that you and your colleagues have +50 BS, then I think you would probably be right.

I’m not sure if anyone truly has 50+ Ballistic Skill. Shooting at stationary targets on a shooting range is not an accurate representation of battle field conditions.

I’m not sure what a good hit ratio would be under combat conditions. I think the U.S. SWAT, FBI, etc. might have a good idea. I believe they have more realistic training that simulates live action. (Count the number of shots, the number of hostile targets hit, number of civilians hit, under what time limits etc.) But even they aren’t good combat simulations because I don’t think they simulate being shot at in return (But I might be wrong).

Snipers are a completely different story. It’s nothing like the combat conditions that most infantry face. So with accurate weapons, high-powered scopes, spotters, etc. then they have a much higher hit percentage.

The biggest eye-opener for me was actually when I first played paint-ball. I was 14 I think. In a situation where you’re pinned down and taking cover, it’s hard to hit someone who is doing the same. Even coming straight at them and unloading when they’re in the open is hard. I remember a number of times when I couldn’t hit someone that was 20 feet away! (Granted, paint-ball guns aren’t incredibly accurate, but they are accurate enough). There use to be a great in-door place I went to. It was dimly lit, it vented in smoke from pipes, had all kinds of ramps etc. And the place was huge. It was in a warehouse building.

I’ve also known people that are great marksmen. But when you add in all the random factors like return fire, poor visibility, poor communications, multiple targets, etc. then they probably aren’t likely to hit more than 30% of the time.

FYI: I do not claim to be an expert on the subject. I can only speak from my observations.

P.S. There’s nothing wrong with the humorous posts like Graver being a mindless servitor in 40k!

~Administraticon

I've been shooting and hunting for 31 years, still be hard pressed to say my Ballistic skill transposed over would be much more than 36-38 under duress. Left to my own devices, good conditions and a decent gun I don't miss much though.

I think things like ranges would get test difficulty modifiers such as routine (+20) or Easy (+30) in addition to other modifiers after you become adjusted to just things. Add in teh fact that at ranges, and even when hunting, you arent at risk of getting shot back (usually) and arent racing initiative and what not and I think most combat experienced veterans with loads of experience still fall in the 40s BS.

All you need to know is what the game says the stats are for different "types" of characters. If the game says 60 is the max for human and 50 is average for space marine, do you really think you have space marine accuracy?

Your "equation" to convert real life to the game is whats broken. Sorry. The game may not reflect what you think is your BS realistically, but guess what, its not realistic, its a game.

Administraticon wrote:
P.S. There’s nothing wrong with the humorous posts like Graver being a mindless servitor in 40k!

I'm glad you didn't mention my Nurgling post as an example of humor. I actually am a swarm of Nurglings hopping around on a keyboard while picking my nose and oozing diseased slime all over the place.

<--- I am this serious.

I was Navy, active for 8 years and reserve for 2, and 6 of those years was on a ship. Other than watching "training" videos and reading, RPGs were the only way to let your imagination could get a work out.

My stats are kinda low since I'm out of shape and haven't seriously been shooting or done any Martial Arts in about 2 years, but my mind is still strong and if it has moving parts and/or electricity I can figure it out and get it working. It might involve A LOT of banging with hammers, even with electronic stuff, and cursing, but it'll get fixed.

Bubonicus wrote:I actually am a swarm of Nurglings hopping around on a keyboard while picking my nose and oozing diseased slime all over the place.

I knew it!