There are a number of ways you can make money and companies have been selling pen & paper roleplay for decades now. I don't begrudge an attempt to make money from a product. An attempt to create a 'cash-cow' from a beloved product however does get my goat.

 Tharen: I wasn't telling you to reconsider your life, I was agreeing with Edrick and adding to his "reconsider your hobby" comment, that's all :-)

Wow! Fans (and not-so-much-fans) writing about Abu Ghraib, Jesus, wayward orphans, salvation, abominations, travesties, and other such...

I'm just looking forward to playing with brightly-colored dice!  :D

I really want to say that I'm glad I'm not down in the trenches. I had a very strong voice on the Wizards message boards some years ago. I had some issues with 3rd edition D&D, and I wasn't for 4th edition at all. I haven't played 4th edition D&D, but I have heard good things about it from people who weren't looking forward to it and tried it, and they say it's actually a fun game. Having said that though, I really don't think 3rd edition WFRP is AT ALL comparable to 4th Edition D&D. I think this is a totally different situation. I was VERY skeptical for the first couple weeks after 3rd edition was announced, because I thought that FFG might be going in exactly that route that WotC did. But I think they've assured us pretty evenly that this game is about roleplaying in its purest form. I believe Jay Little and Dan Clark and the other designers when they talk about the effort that was put into 3rd edition to make it GM-friendly and roleplaying/storytelling-oriented - you can see it from the evidence in the game design, and I VERY MUCH appreciate the enthusiasm and ingenuity and creativity and work that they put into this.

I guess it surprises me to see people getting so very emotional about the transition to 3rd edition, and it does sort of dishearten me to read some of the things written. FFG isn't some stupid automobile or insurance company. The people who are part of FFG wouldn't be in this profession if they didn't have some passion for the genre, and the hobby, and for Warhammer.

FFG does make some (very good) boardgames, but they are not (Pokemon card-manufacturing) Hasbro. They are not conspiring to kill the industry, and if they wanted to make a Warhammer boardgame, they would (and they did). I think I myself would be very hurt to read certain criticisms on here, were they about my own contributions in writing or in roleplaying games, especially from those who haven't yet read the material, or seen it in action.

@ paradiddlebob

my apologies for the below post to you.

It was way over the top and insulting.

Sorry.

@ paradiddlebob

It is exactly this lackwit postings that drive normal posters away from "hot forum" where fanboyz and old guard fight their flamewars. Before I re-consider my life, you might want to reconsider you insipient posts.

@ Erdrick
Please re-read my post. I do not begrudge FFG to make money. It is cool for them and good for the hobby if they outsell WoC's 4th edition. In fact I hope that they sell a lot of copies to new blood and that WH 3rd edition, Pathfinder RPG and D&D 4th edition will revitalize the roleplaying community!

That my personal preference of gaming is different does not blin me to the fact, that this edition seems to be a technical masterwork with well though out mechanics. If I find a GM I will gladly try this edition. All hunky-dory! No bad blood from me.

I did not whine that FFG created a new edition. But FFG did not create the new edition, because 2nd edition was selling badly. But FFg took the game over in the midst of its life. So they were not able to reap the profits from selling the "Core" Books (the Players/GM Book and the Monster book). But it is the Core Books that are sold the most. And of the Core Books the "Players" Book is what is sold most. Look at it, you can do without Setting Books or even a Monster Book. But you need a Book with the rules and the PC Classes.

So FFG, as a business savy company, wanted to get the Core Book revenue. So they sat down and created 3rd edition. But 3rd edition had to be different from 2nd edition. At least different enough to warrant new Player/GM books. Otherwise gamers would just use their 2nd edition books. And of course FFG must have had a look at the new way WoC went with D&D. So thy decied to take this all a step further. And voila 3rd edition was born.

In the end, the flamewars will die down as they did for D&D 3rd edition vs. 4th edition. All will have the game they want. But compared to D&D, no other publishers will be able to pick up the flame for 2nd edition and produce stuff to keep this edition alive. It is all down to the gamers here.

 Or reconsider your life :-)

...why begrudge a company for trying to make money? That's what they exist to do. That's like getting mad at a bird for flying or a dog for barking.

Also, I think the fact that a company (which as I've said, exists to make money) is choosing not to support 2e is all the proof you need that 2e didn't sell well; logically, if 2e was selling well, then they're be no reason to mess with a good thing when they could just continue to rake in the money, correct?

I think everyone just needs to take a big step back, take a deep breath, and chill out. If you don't like WFRP 3e, then the solution is obvious: don't buy it and don't play it. Consumers vote with their dollar. There's nothing to stop you continuing from playing 2e, all the material is out there (seriously, you can find everyone sourcebook online for free if you look hard enough), and there's still plenty of fan support for it, so there's really no excuse to whine except because you feel like whining. And whining won't stop this game from coming out, nor will it stop people like me from buying it.

I think it's cool. I've kept up with all the information, read all the dev diaries and articles and whatnot, and I think it looks like fun.

And really, isn't that the point of any game: to be fun?

The moment you start taking a game so seriously that you lose sight of that, is the moment you need to reconsider your hobby.

But that's just my opinion, naturally. Your mileage may vary.

You may continue bickering now.

Disclaimer: I do not have an "Anti" 3rd edition opinion. The game is not for me, but looks well crafted and though out.

@ Darkami

- Neither BI nor Warhammer 2nd edition did not "fail" as you put it. GW just noticed that BI made far more money with their Novels than with the Roleplaying games. The Roleplaying game lines include WHFRPG and Warhammer 40K (because that was being in design BEFORE Black industries closed shop for their roleplaying line. Let me re-state it: Black Industries now focuses on Warhammer Novels only. The marging for roleplying games was to low as this was not their core business.

- There are no public sources (at least I know of none) that show the sales of Warhammer 2nd edition. So I guess you do not have thse numbers either. therefore you have NO evidence whatsover that 2nd edition did not sell well.

- FFG are crafty and business savy.  I do not think that they took over WH 2nd edition without being given the sales figures. But they took over WH 2nd. So I guess they must have thought they could make som profit.

-FFG is not the saviour of Warhammer. They are interested in huge sales. Every company is and should be or they go bust. Now with a new edition there are a lot of big  new business opportunities:

1) FFG will sell the "Core Books" all over again. They did come too late for that in 2nd edition. I believe there will be monster book and a GM advice book.

2) FFG can and probably will create a lot of  "new" sourcebooks that cover the Old World under 3rd edition rules. So we will probaly see a "Sigmars Heirs" 3rd edition and a Sourcebook for the Border Princes and Kislev and so on.

3) The 3rd edition is almost uncopyable. Look at 2nd edition, there are dozens of PDF copies available (legally and illegaly) for download. Add 2d10 and you can play. Not so with 3rd edition. you need the cards and other gimmicks. That will make sure that there are very few illegal copies flying around.

4)  With the new mechanics I guess that not only sourcebooks but also, what is in D&D is called "Splatbooks" will be feasible. New Cards, Career Paths Dice and whatnot without any source material. Just the mechanics. Easier to produce

 Acolyte-Plath: wasn't directed at you. I was referring to the all the yelling and childish forum posters I used to read on the original GW forums.

Wow! I'm getting a lot of fatuous insults here. Childish brat? I'm 29. Petty? These are things I love that're being damaged here. Fyi, Workshop (GW that is, not the defunct Workshop they ripped the name off) took down their forums because of C. S. Gotto and his parade of terrible novels. Death threats leveled at him I believe. That is a little strong perhaps.

I was never a GW forum member. I have no interest in whatever travesty they're taking part in these days. You're quite right, they've got a business to run and that's pretty much all they're interested in these days. Let's leave them to it. Hard to run a business though without customers. Here's a tip: Don't insult, dismiss, or generally offend your customer base. One disgruntled customer will tell generally 12 others about bad service.

Countdown to gaming goodness. I can't wait to see some of the independent reviews. I think there's going to be a flood of creative fan made material. Having things to look forward to makes life more enjoyable :)  I'm already looking forward to supplements and community creations.

Yes, the game will hit the stores in couple of days now I can't wait till my copy will come to me. I've finaly played the game, taked a closer look at the book and all components that are in the core set and I'm impresed. it all looks amazing, can't wait to get my hands on my copy of WFRP - MY NEW FAVOURED RPG GAME!

Darkkami - finaly someone said that - Thanks!