I like the idea of stormtroopers being elite. The movies certainly support this idea. The stormtroopers attack on the Jawa's sand crawler and Obi Wan's statement "only stormtroopers are so precise" shows this. As does the boarding of the Tantive IV and the assault on echo base. Typically, the rebels are running from the stormtroopers, with the notable exception of the first Death Star where Tarkin and Vadar expressly let Han, Luke, and Leia escape and the battle of Endor, where the Ewoks annoyed the stormtroopers to death. 

cparadis said:

That is just because the Rebels are always heavily outnumbered. It is the same in The Lord of the Rings - the Free Peoples are on the defensive because while Elves are better fighters than Orcs, the thing with Orcs is there there are thousands of the buggers!

Just for fun. Why were the stormtroopers in Star Wars such bad shots? and The Biggest Star Wars Plot Hole, Explained by Science. Besides the main characters who are wearing plot armor, stormtroopers were a threat. And when they are translated to a game, they still need to be threatening and intimidating. You can play them like keystone cops if that is your interest, but most players want to be challenged, or at least have the appearance of being challenged. And they should have character as the faceless minions of the empire as much as any other actual named NPC. That way when they show up they either inspire the characters to take them out or run away, depending on the circumstances.

ErikB said:

mouthymerc said:

I think orc is a better analogy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFnWqdoboMM

There isn't an enormous themeatic difference between Nazis, Orcs and Stormtroopers. Second World War movies, The Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are telling the same story.

The only way I've ever explained, "OnlyImperial Stormtroopers are so precise", to what we see is the plot armor you already mentioned and explained in the link. They were shooting at the heroes in the movies, so they had to miss. When the Stormtroopers are shooting at non-heroes they seem to be excellent shots. For me, the Stormtroopers fightin the heroes were very unlucky or the heroes were destined by fate and thus very lucky. So, left with the Stormtroopers assaulting Hoth or the Tantive IV as average, they are back to being elite (at least above average), and earn their reputation of, "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise".

In my mind, as far as EotE is concerned, Stormtroopers should be tough opponents. The PCs should be used to dealing with common scum, so when the Imperials show up, it should be an "oh crap" moment. 

Doc, the Weasel said:

+1

I am sure everyone has seen this article.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/

But it is this section that bothers me.

>>While I’m not comparing the Rebel Alliance to al-Qaida or the Galactic Empire to the United States,<<

Yes you are.

>>in strategic terms, this is like Osama bin Laden’s escape from the December 2001 battle at Tora Bora, Afghanistan — a disaster masquerading as a tactical success.<<

And the comments.

>>Have you even served with the Imperial forces? Sure it's easy to take potshots from your military blog in some no-name star system while the fleet and its legions fight the rebel insurgents, but combined space/air/ground operations are a lot messier than any infographic could ever portray.

Even with the Empire's full spectrum dominance of the battlespace, you can't just leverage fleet assets which are optimized for ship-to-ship combat into a large scale ground invasion force. A Star Destroyer might have more firepower than the entire militaries of less advanced worlds but you still need a proper ground assault ship to support infantry landings.

Unfortunately, the do-nothing blowhards in Coruscant couldn't get funding for the promising alternative designs from Sienar Fleet Systems and we ended up (as usual) with Kuat Drive Yards' overpriced, overdue, and underperforming AT-AT mess.<<

>>Guys, cut Palpatine some slack. He's still in his first term as Emperor and it's hard working with the Imperial Senate, even after he had that Gungan executed for incompetence. If only we still had those clones…<<

Seriously. People these days find it easier to imagine themselves as the Imperials than the Rebels.

This troubles me because

1: It is ass backwards for Star Wars.

2: From a think of the children angle, I don't think the Evil Empire make very good rolemodels.

3: From a practical point of view, if the games are going to expect players to be the Rebels, this is a real problem. For a start, no one wants to be the bloody Taliban. They do suicide bombings, shoot girls in the head for wanting to go to school, and perhaps more importantly they get their asses kicked every time there is a battle.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Why?

Flash Gordon never says "oh crap". He jumps in with both fists. The samurai dude doesn't say "oh crap". His emotionless face never shows fear. Same with Clint Eastwood.

I am just not sure that "oh crap" is an enormously in genre reaction for Star Wars. A nameless rebel might say "Theres too many of them!" but largely only so one of the PC can tell him to calm down.

ErikB said:

Wow.

I hadn't seen that before, but didn't really get anything from it.  To use game terms (which I think is fair, given where we're posting), Lucas, the GM, set up a scenario where he allowed the characters to influence the outcome and led to the next act that he wanted to play out along his narrative path.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I get what they were saying in that article, but its just a lot of necessary deconstruction that made some interesting points to keep in mind for environment/ecounter design, but ultimately drew a bumch meaningless conclusions.

Author thinks Vader botched it.  We get it.

-WJL

Doc, the Weasel said:

Completely agree.

LethalDose said:

Well, I was just linking to it as an example of why I think it is so important that they do everything possible to ensure that the relationship between the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire is less Islamic Militant vs. Free World and more Free Peoples vs. Mordor.

People do get that it is important that people don't think the Rebellion are Al-Qaeda, right? On the grounds that there is little less cool in the western world than Al-Qaeda?

Doc, the Weasel said:

+1 (we need a Like button). This sums up what I've been trying to say in a much simpler way.

ErikB said:

2) There is some grounds to compare Al-Qaida and the Rebel Alliance, or at least the guerilla groups that end up affiliated with Al-Qaida. Namely, they are fighting a guerilla war. The Rebel Alliance cannot go toe to toe with the empire and have a chance in hell of winning. Instead it avoids that. However, that is where the simiarlities end. The Rebel Alliance are the good guys in a black-and-white universe, and tactically they operate more from the "avoid figthing where the enemy has much strength and so maintain local superiority", striking where the Imperium is weak, drawing off forces with diversionary attacks etc, rather than directly attacking the morale of the soldiers and public through terrorist tactics.

3) I don't think there is anything to worry about children. Children will quite easily go along with the "good guys" vas the "bad guys", and they love furry teddy bears beating up what are meant to be well trained soldiers (that and stupid slapstick characters with long ears and frog like eyes). It is more a teenage onwards thing where you go "Wait, some of the Imperial stuff looks cooler" and you get fed up of pointless cutesiness and predictable characters.

4) Also, I think you are taking it far too seriously.

The reason that it should be an "oh crap" moment: In Edge of Empire you are playing… well just civilians really. People living a nearly hand-to-mouth existance in the edge of the law and the edge of civilisation. Most of the people you face are similar, or used to dealing with similar people. Thugs are usually more about intimidation and threat than actually fighting. Even most bounty hunters are usually dealing with the occasional thug or easily intimidated non-violent crook. Also, you are existing in a world where people are usually willing to negotiate. Yes, they may have insructions to bring you to their boss, but with enough persuasion, and a little incentive, they might be willing to look the other way.

Stormtroopers, on the other hand, are properly trained soldiers, who have trained to fight harderned opposition, rather than cowardly crooks. They are also unrelenting. You cannot persuade or bribe them to convince them that it might be in their better interest to look the other way, and they will not be intimidated by some petty show of force. They will come after you until they are told otherwise by a superior or you have dealt with them (which wouldn't be easy for your average petty criminal).