Yepesnopes said:

It is a bit of a theoretical. How would you accomplish giving characters abilities without needing a book or cards for refference, it sounds like you either don't play games that have these abilities or have very big character sheets.

We just don't have many games in common. 

Beren Eoath, several of those issues you list seem small or personalized (not enough space for cards), some seem a bit applicable to every game ("no one has played a bard in my pathfinder game, that is like 10 pages wasted!")and some seem a bit contradictory (not having all the mages and priests). You realise EotE only has a handful of classes and races and you have to pick up more books for the others as well, yes?

I just thought DevoutBadger that sometime those small thing are annoing. I wuold rather have less careers that would fit the setting and are playable then have o lot of them and many will never be used or unplayable.

About the races/classes and SW EotE - the same is with all games. With every expansion there are commming new races and clases. That's what expansions are for. - too bring more fun.

I just would rather use a book with a good index then flip through cards every time I need to find something. One of the thing I did not like in 3e was the condition cards - when someone was undetr a cndition I must flip through them all to find a proper one.

Like someone said there is no perfect game, but I would like to see WFRP comming to perfection closer then it is now. The way I see it , it looks like WFRP 3e is ending and I would just want to know what will FFG do about it. Will they continue the ;line or make a new one that will sale better. I think that many players from previous edition would buy a new WFRP  when it would come in books. I don't know why RPG players do not like cards but many of them do. So a new edition 3.5 or 4.0 of WFRP, that would be compatible with 3e or not, that would have all the best part from every previous edition and some new ideas could unite players from every edition. 

The reason for me when I started this disucion was to convince FFG that they should give us any info of the future of WFRP. I don't care if they would say then continue the 3e line or make a new one but we as players should know what will happen to our game.

Cheers

PS. I would be very pleased if  FFG would give us any announcement.

Beren Eoath said:

I am not certain why you think WFRP3 is not going to continue be supported.

I am of the opposite opinion whereby it will receive 1-2 supplements per year + 1-2 PoD content per year.

Then in a couple years, we will see a reedition of the Core box, structred with a different content, and perhaps a streamlinging of some rules, and then more of the routine supplements.

The future will tell.

In any case I actually like what you don't like.

I love cards, and I don't mind tokens.

I have a big table, and I would advise any serious gamer to get one,

I don't needs all wizard schools and priest faiths in the basic box. I think they did a great choice of selecting three of each and give them a relatively wide range of spell options. I could have done without any magic in the base box tbh.

I have seen beggars and commoners at my table, and will continue to. WFRP has always been about careers. If you don't like careers are you sure you are playing the right game?

You can get all the information you want on any topic you want linked to the WH world on internet and past supplements. I am very glad they structured their books on setting a mood and a genre, and not on yet another atlas-like description of whatever small village that has a 99% chance of never seeing any play. And when it does see play, it is only for a split second. I am much happier with just mentions of possible things, and styles, and then more extensive work on scenarios.

All in all I think WFRP 3 is a great edition. I think we could do with a little streamlining, perhaps a rebalancing of some systems to make the setting more difficult, but I am happy WFRP 3 is still on the store shelves.

LONG LIVE WFRP 3!!! WTG FFG!!!

I agree with Yepesnopes that the real innovation in WFRP3 is only the dice system.

But the cards do provide a lot of (combat & spell) options without having to look-up the rules in several rulebooks.

Yes, in many RPGs you don't have to constantly refer to the rulebook(s), but those RPGs have much less combat/spell options available [that's not a flaw, just a question of style & preferences].

So if you want a game with more emphasis on combat/spell options, the cards are really helpful. If you want more storytelling, no need for all those cards, but the special dices are still a nice tool.

DevoutBadger said:

Someone, I can't remember who, made the point that as soon as d&d 4th came out people started clamouring for cards to make tracking the powers easy. Then WFRP 3rd comes out, using cards from the outset… and people didn't like it. Personally I like the cards. For the kind of game it is it is the perfect way to keep track of it. Missing them now I am playing a magical character in a pathfinder campaign ("Wait… what does Detect evil do again?"). I can understand complaing about the sheet weight of compenents, most of which are not essential (only the action cards and dice really. Talents, Career abilities, wounds etc didn't need to be cards), and some of the mechanics are a bit weird and very boardgamey (talent slotting), and the balance goes a bit out of whack past about rank 2 or 3, but the action cards are really not an issue.

I personally don't think the fact that an average check is a likely pass is a problem. In fact I think that is kind of good (certainly didn't feel that way when we played it though). However, at higher levels the fact that combat difficulties didn't scale really meant that combat kind of became a matter of which side could wallop the other quickly enough.

LMAO!!!   I was over at the SW EotE forums and many of the forum members where stating that they hope that FFG adds Action Cards, and Stance Trackers to the system, furthermore they hope that a mechanic similar to the Spell Casting for WFRP 3E is added to some of the upcoming Force Powers!   LOL  I couldnt help but laugh out loud at the fact that many of the WFRP 3e players are debating about streemlining the system to be more like SW EotE, and the SW players are asking for it to be more like WFRP 3e.    

Just goes to show, we gamers are never happy.

HMM, FFG just released a new POD for 20$ with only a few cards, and now You all can't tell they game is cheap. A game that is too expensive for players will not stay on the marked for long. And WFRP 3e is getting more and more expensive with every expansions. By the way I readed a report of how good any games ware selling in 2012 - from FFG the best selling RPG is W40k printed in book forms without cards and any other useless, for me, accesories. The WFRP 3e was out of the first 10 best selling RPGs. Looks like SW will be one of the bestsellers for this year and it will be published the same way as W40k RPGs are. I hope that this year will bring us a new edition of WFRP - I know FFG will not annouce this until they will have it all made to go for printers- that will look like SW EotE.

Today I had a talk with a friend who is working in a shop with games (in one of the European distributor). We talked about WFRP and he told me that many of WFRP 3e supplements are out of print and FFG will not reprint them us far ust they know. For me this is another sign that the end of 3e is near.

Don't get me wrong I like the game, it is fun but I think it could be ever better without cards and other useless, in my opinion, accesories. maybe FFG should consiedr makeing a new line that would let You play without cards so in book format. And then maybe they should make optional cards in expansions. Not like it is now when cards are a must have (in the Lite version You still need cards to play). I think this option would please all players - the ones that want to play without cards and those that want to use them. The game in books format would be cheaper for everyone and You could play the game with only books, pencil, dice and a character sheet. And every one who would want to have cards would just buy a box with cards and could use them as they what.

Maybe someone at FFG would consider my idea.

Cheers

Beren Eoath said:

I think with the launching of SW EotE, there is no time for a new edition of Warhammer this year, and besides, wouldn't they do like with SW EotE? preselling a beta to allow public play testing?

Cheers,

Yepes

Yepesnopes said:

Hmm, interesting thought abuot the beta but many of Euroean players,  most of WFRP players are from Europe I think, wouldn't have a chance to get it.

If I remebere good, there is a new leading  designer that was hired by FFG to make WFRP, it was a couple of months ago. So I think that there is a chance of announcing a new WFRP this year especialy if it would be compatible with 3e. That would be a 3.5 edition. But if they would change it to look more like W40k RPGs or SW RPGs then it would take more time.

I still think that the best way of publishing WFRP would be to publish it in book format (like SW or W40k RPGs). With and optional expansions with cards so that everybody would be satisfied. The old players could play without all the stuff they don't need like cards, but everybody who would like to play with cards could buy a card expansion wthat would allow him to to do so. That way every player could customise the game the way he wants.

This could be made very easy. We could have the same stats as in 3e but with a larger skill list. We still could have talents but without slots. And Abilities that would be active and passive. Active abilities would work all the time and passive would be activeted by cost (for example by 1 stress or fatigue). For a test you could use all passive abilities but only one active. The active abilities could be similar to action cards from WFRP 3e. This would look similar to SW. That way we could throw out all tokens and cards to play the game leaving all custom dice. For players that would want to have those on cards FFG could publish and expansion with talents and abilities on cards, with stand-ups and every other useless for some players stuff. Everyone would be pleased by such an edition, maybe even the players from 1st and 2nd edition would come back to the game.

Jicey said:

I think that misses the point a bit. Sure, people have used action cards before. The innovation was in recognising that by including them by default they could create a far more complex game that would otherwise be viable. The range of options (and the wide varience between those options) presented in the cards is greater than in most other games. I think the guides were a failure as a result. Sure, they were what people were asking for, but I think that once folks got their hands on them they realised it wasn't really workable to play the game without the cards.

What about stance, talent socketing, party sheets, trait match ups for leveling, fatigue, & stress?  Were these concepts done before in an rpg?

How about the artwork?  Was this not an incredibly high-value artwork product (with the exception of the daemonette in Lure of Power?)

jh

I could envision a redux of v3 that walks and talks like SW:EotE but offers backwards compatibility with v3 products and shifts all the cards that have been released thus far to POD

Daedalum said:

PODs are to expensive so I would say big box card expansions would be better. They are cheaper and every shop can have those very soon after the release.

Backward capability would be nice but it not a must have for me. If they would do it it would mean that they still care about players who bought the WFRP 3e. Besides I think it can be done very easy. Talents would be Talents but witout sockets, Specialisations would be like active Abilities and Action cards would be passive Abilities. My previous post clears this up.

Cheers

Emirikol said:

None of this things are new, for sure not fatigue and stress concepts.

The talent socketing may be new in the rpg world, but not the talents itself. And in my opinion the socketing talents mechanics is one the worst mechanics of the whole game.