So, I've been working for some time now on a Jedi Career/Specialization concept for porting this system into other eras (but still keeping the general theme of "Edge"). It's still a ways out, mostly because I'm finding I'm too busy to actually test anything on it, but I have spawned an idea for the enterprising GM who wishes to introduce a fully-fledged Jedi into the mix.  These rules attempt to keep with the traditional Jedi Guardian/Sentinel/Consular concept and their typical perceived "roles." Nothing too surprising or novel here :)

So here I present The Quick and Dirty Jedi System:

1. Make Lightsaber a skill to purchase.

2. Make a career called "Jedi." The Jedi career should have the following skills: Athletics, Coordination, Discipline, Leadership, Lightsaber, Knowledge (Education), Perception, Vigilance.

3. (This step involves a smidgen of work on the GM's part, but should be nearly plug-and-play) The Jedi career can have three specializations, each with an analog for already existing specializations. For example, Marauder or Bodyguard could be transformed to Jedi Guardian, Politico or Scholar could be made into Jedi Consular, Assassin or Thief could be renamed as Jedi Sentinel). When you do this, allow them to treat any talents that mention "Brawl or Melee checks" as if they said "Lightsaber checks." Consider also giving Lightsaber as a bonus skill to the Jedi Guardian specialization.

4. Replace one bottom-level talent (25 XP) in each specialization with the Force Rating talent (allowing the Jedi to increase his Force Rating by +1 each time). The Jedi Consular's should be the easiest to purchase, and the Jedi Guardian's should be the hardest to purchase. The Sentinel's should be as easy to purchase to as is his Dedication talent.

5. The Jedi Career gives the player a starting Force Rating of 1.  

Like I said, I've been working on talent trees for each of these specializations and I have a good idea of what bonus skills I'd give them, and also of the new talents I would plug in, but I figured I'd see what people thought of the idea before I ran too much farther with it. 

Please discuss!

I know I've cited this over on the D20 Radio Forums, but I'll mention it again.

Unless you're setting your game well outside the default setting for Edge of the Empire (Dark Times/Early Rebellion Era), then I really don't think a full-blown Jedi career is really necessary, particularly as characters in this default setting don't have the benefit of a lifetime of education in the Jedi arts.

Personally, I simply created a single specialization that was specifically "Jedi" in nature, with a talent akin to Force Exile's to add a couple of appropriate skills to the character's career list (Discipline and Lightsaber), as well as talents both existing and home-brewed that I felt were best suited for a lesser/minor Jedi in that era, with a focus on combat, taking a note out of the OCR Rebellion Era campaign guide that Jedi students were generally taught more about lightsaber combat and Force power usage than things generally associated with the Consular or Sentinel paths, and a lot of what's associated with those fall under Politico and Thief respectively.

And for NPC Jedi characters, the career system is entirely unnecessary, as the Emperor's Hand Forsaken Jedi both demonstrate, since you can just simply assign such characters whatever skills and talents you feel they need.

That, and I wouldn't really call building a whole new career with it's own specializations a "quick and dirty system"

Besides, there's already a "quick and dirty" system in place for making Jedi-style characters, mainly by taking the Force-Sensitive Exile and convincing your GM to permit the creation of a non-career Lightsaber skill.

 Hmm…have to rethink this cross-posting idea :) Gets a little cumbersome.

But, yeah, like I said over on the d20radio forums, I have been, and still am, totally on board with the "Jedi don't exist right now" feel that is propagated within Edge of the Empire.

My aim here is just to present my thoughts on options for, say, an Edge of the Empire game during the reign of a different Sith Empire (c. 3600 BBY or 130 ABY, for example!).

awayputurwpn said:

Well, I might also counter that if you want to run games where Jedi are at or close to their full strength and grandeur, then perhaps EotE isn't the right game to use for those settings, at least not yet.  For those kinds of settings, where Jedi knowledge hasn't been all but wiped out from the face of the galaxy, you may very well be better off sticking to Saga Edition or even WEG (particularly if you have the Tales of the Jedi supplement).  Force-users in EotE are pretty limited in the focus and scope of their powers, with only the most basic effects (telekinesis, mind trickery, and limited telepathy) being available to the PCs.  And as has been noted, a number of "fundamental" effects such as Blaster Deflection/Reflection, Force Grip/Choke and Farseeing really aren't possible with what's currently available.  Again, not a problem for EotE, but much more of an issue in just about any other era aside from Dark Times or Rebellion Era.

Not saying it's a waste of effort, just that the issue here is a lot bigger than simply "lack of a Jedi career."

This is true. In fact, Redirect is one of the mechanics I got stuck on making my talent trees :) I was thinking something along the lines of "Use [Despair] resulting from a blaster attack targeting you to redirect the weapon's damage at the enemy" but I have gotten nowhere near refining or even playtesting :) Though one of my NPCs does have this ability, should my PCs choose to attack her at some point in the future (shhhhh).

And, like you say, there are a lot of these fundamental "Jedi" abilities that just aren't represented. I figured, though, that the narrative dice could make up for quite a bit of the dearth of actual Jedi abilities. 

It's gonna be a long wait for Force & Destiny…

                                 I think the Jedi being continually mentioned in this setting has to do with the fact that in the movies, even though the Jedi have been nearly wiped from the galaxy, the story centralizes on ONE Jedi in ALL THREE movies. His progression makes up the Lion's share of the Storyline and players do tend to want that kind of epic spotlight.

               That said, letting too many players make Jedi Characters can defeat the purpose of the Imperial setting. Simple solution: CHANGE the setting. Granted, this may take a bit of translation work, but if your players want something other than the empire (Which I've seen some of), the adjustment isn't THAT hard. Besides, a blaster pistol is a blaster pistol regardless of the timeline.

                Another way of putting this: If the rules and the people conflict, change the rules not the people. Less likely to frustrate yourself to death. We are here to have fun, after all.

                                 I do like the Idea of having a Jedi Career, Simply because the Jedi WEREN'T wiped from the galaxy, they went underground. There was still one academy running (according to the novels) and around seven Jedi mentioned in novels that time frame (One right in Coruscant!), as well as the Jensaarai, Dathomir Force Witches and several other Force-users that even the great Palpatine Himself couldn't find, much less dust off. The movies are ONE perspective of a VERY LARGE universe. Looking from only one perpective helped user the near-demise of the Jedi, after all. Though I can't say these are "quick and dirty" rules, I do like the added options to the Game if it can be done. Gives those GM's who do want to look at some ideas in that area an outlet, and those who don't an NPC basis to work from, not just as cardboard cut-outs but real characters.

dreddwulf1 said:

If we were all hoping to run a campaign called, "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Savior of the Galaxy!", then yes I would be with you. We aren't.  There is also a Sith Lord throughout all 6 of the movies, but the Edge of the Empire is not centered on running a Sith campaign either.

Sturn said:

Athough I do agree that games set in the Rebellion era should not need Jedi rules, I do not agree that this means that no-one should need them. I really like the system that FFG have created and though I personally would prefer to have a more generic game with that ability to run games in any era, I do not feel that they should have to use an older system to run the kind of games I want ton run. If someone is willing and able to create some kind of rules I can  use then I am happy to work with them.

awayputurwpn said:

I would be more inclined to have Force User as the base career (using the Force Sensitive Exile) with the specialisations being Jedi, Sith and Other. Other should cover all of the non-Jedi/Sith force traditions such as Dathomiri Force Witches, Killian Rangers, Ithorian Nature Priests, Jensaarai, Teepo Paladins and Sorcerors of Tund. With regard to career skills I would leave Lightsaber as only within the Jedi and Sith Specialisations.

That said, I think your work so far is very workable.

E
 

eldath said:

I'm thinking this approach is much more viable than a purely "Jedi" career.  After all, one of the larger points of confusion and contention with Saga Edition was the lack of a "general Force-user" class, with the Jedi class being fairly specific in what it covered.

Not sure I'd go with a Sith specialization though, as in most cases an actual Sith would be an NPC.

Perhaps the three specs being Jedi (focus on lightsaber combat), Exile (self-trained, current Force Exile spec works just fine for this), and perhaps Mystic (heavy focus on the more spiritural/metaphysical side of the Force), though my home-brew versios I opted for a "dark side devotee" to allow for shadier characters to explore the darker side of the Force without necessarily being full-on evil.

awayputurwpn said:

I have been toying with the idea of deflecting/redirecting… first off, one idea could be to separate the two (deflect and redirect), or have an improved deflect talent somewhere on the tree (that will enable redirecting). The first talent, "deflect" is ranked and each rank could EITHER add setback dice to anyone shooting at the jedi (akin to a ranged defence bonus), OR upgrade difficulty once per rank - so rank three on a medium range band would roll against two challenge dice and a difficulty die, short range two challenge dice (if my math is correct). This is where the improved deflect comes in, this talent enables despairs to redirect the attack back automatically hitting, and/or X amount of threats can be spent to roll an attack against the shooter - OR the deflect talent can spend the despair, whereas the improved deflect enables the expenditure of X amount of threats instead - or some destiny point related expense.

Regarding Deflect and Reflect, I'm thinking it could be broken out into two separate effects.

Deflect is already covered via the Deflection weapon quality, and thus a talent that provdies Deflection (and Defensive) to a lightsaber is all that's needed on that front.  Make it a ranked talent so that you can have a Jedi who's really good at the defensive traits of the weapon (someone like CW-era Obi-Wan with his mastery of Soresu).

As for Blaster Reflection, I'm thinking that this could probably be it's own talent as well, but definitely a high-level one (5th row, at the very least), and using the Redirect Shot mechanic from SWSE as the root idea.  So something like "Once per round, spend 2 Strain to redirect a missed ranged attack at any target within range (based on the attacker's weapon), making a Lightsaber skill roll to attack but with the damage based upon the original weapon's damage."

Not very powerful in spite of getting what amounts to a free attack, since it's a once-per-round effect, but quite simple and puts the Deflection quality to good use.

I was just going to give the Lightsaber a "deflection" quality, something like - when under ranged attack from energy weapons a skilled target using this weapon is considered to be in cover (a number of setback dice = to the skill of the user). Also 3 threat can be spent to deflect a bolt of energy back at the attacker doing base damage, if a despair is spent the bolt also deals a critical hit. I wasn't sure if there should be a new reactive to-hit roll rolled, my gut says no.

CharlieBananas said:

Yeah, I really dislike the idea of multiple rolls to redirect. Sounds like we are on the same page as to how to handle redirecting in one dice pool.

I was also thinking, for a possible "Redirect/Riposte" which would have Shien/Djem So flavors, one might suffer strain or spend a Destiny Point or something to make an attack targeting them into an Opposed Check. But then that'd necessitate extra rules on how to handle opposed combat checks. 

And yes, certain talents in the Jedi career should be, IMO, dedicated to improving one's skill with the Lightsaber. So there'd be a Defensive/Deflection boost, a talent similar to "Feral Strength;" and then for the Jedi Guardian, at least, a talent called "Master Swordsman" (suffer strain to decrease the difficulty of a lightsaber check), and perhaps "Natural Duelist" (reroll one lightsaber check once per session). 

Like I said, the big hang-up for me is in how to handle redirecting in an elegant and cinematic fashion. Otherwise I've got a lot of ideas that I like and that I think are workable and balanced. I just didn't want to throw out a half-baked set of specializations, so my idea was just to use what's already there in the book if people wanted to play in an era that is slightly more Jedi-friendly, but still in keeping with the theme of Edge of the Empire (for example, during the first Jedi Purge, or multiple other times throughout the Old Republic Era, or during Darth Krayt's Sith Empire).

Donovan Morningfire said:

I can see your point on the Sith tradition but knowing players I can believe that someone would want to play one and I see no reason to not allow them so long as it fits in your game style. Also, if you have the force sensitive exile then you are likely to be running the game during the rebellion in which case Jedi should probebly not be available. You could I suppose go into the D20 version which is Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular and Other Tradition, this might work.

E

 I'm seeing some great ideas in here, but there is one huge problem (at least in my opinion) -- the bounty hunter take a turn to shoot the jedi, and the jedi get to hurt the hunter. On the hunter's turn. Then on the jedi's turn, he can hurt somebody as well. That's 2 attacks per turn. Sure, sometimes the reflect doesn't work, so maybe the math suggests something closer to 1.5 attacks per turn, but that is .5 more than other people. I think the equivalent of a prepared action should be expended.

I hate to object, throw an idea out and run, but no time. There's the ball, your court, guys.

eldath said:

Well, now with Force-Sensitive Exile being clarified to be a non-career specialization, that blows the door wide open for any sorts of non-career talent trees. 

I think that "Jedi" is appropriate as a career, and isn't as appropriate as a single specialization (and neither is "Sith"), but IMO there's certainly room for a "Lightsaber Duelist" talent tree that focused simply on the martial aspect of mastering the lightsaber, and was available to Jedi, Sith, and many of the other traditions out there. I think that'd be cool.