This saturday I played the game for the second time. This session was with 3 players.

On the winter of 5th year, two players (blue and black) were tied with the other (yelow) about 4 points behind them, on the military track, yelow was on 4, blue on 2 and black on 0. When the enemy shows up, it was the Dragon, with strenght of 9.

Black, with a defense of 4 from the buildings, have a few chances, blue had 5 defense from buildings (I think), and yelow had about 4 points from the buildings. I'm not sure about the values, but to be short, the only chance for blue to loose was a 1 on the the king's military aid, and this was what we got. The game was decided on this roll of the dice.

Magoo said:

There is a factor of risk and reward in the game and I am perfectly fine with it. Without the chance to lose, there would be no point in building up the military. In the expansion there will be alternatives to it (with chips representing what is rolled) though if you don't like it. Then you can control your destiny.

At the beginning of the year everyone knows what the level of the attack will be. Part of the game, I believe, that works very well is the option to cover your back and make sure you have the soldiers in place or to risk that the King will provide you with the cannon fodder you are missing and go for that more expensive building instead!

Magoo said:

the game was lost for yellow because he was 4 points behind before the last battle (not necessary becasue of the roll). i really like the amount of luck in kingsburg, not to much and not to little. your milage may vary of course...

I can understand the frustration of losing a game on a single die roll.  However, overall, I feel this dice game has more "control" than any other dice game I can think of.   Don Greenwood once said, in the Avalon Hill General "There are no luck factors where decisions are concerned.  You either make the right decisions, and increase your chances of winning, or make the wrong ones."  (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that's pretty close to what he wrote concerning dice and decisions in the issue on "Dinosaurs of the Lost World".)  Point being: once you learn the game, you'll be able to make the best decisions regarding your dice placements. 

TK

I think and feel that kingsburg has not too much luck and enough catch up algorithms and rewards for low die roles. In combat you can always play save with buildings and soldiers, so that no die role can make you loose. If you pla with risk, than dont bark about bad luck :)

 Compared to some either dice games, particularly one where you are settling an island, I find Kingsburg to be much much better in terms of luck.  You can mitigate your bad luck to some degree, but if you get lucky you will succeed more.  I prefer to think of this game as resource management rather than a building game.  If you manage resources correctly, with just a hint of luck, you should be able to build something every turn.  Whether or not you want to is the question.  I find Kingsburg asks the question, "One cupcake now, or two cupcakes later?" constantly.  This is compounded by other players moving their victory point markers.

There is also the false reasoning that this game came down to "one dice roll". It was the LAST roll sure, but every other roll up to this one affected the game and hass to be counted. So maybe the players who lost actually had some GREAT rolls earlier that put them in position to feel "cheated" when that "one roll" went against them. But it is never the case. You have to take the game as a whole, and so be it if it does indeed hinge on the last roll. There is always a "moment" in a game that is close be it beginning, middle or end. In this case it was the end...just LOOKS more dramatic. ;)

If in one game there is mechanics that let you moderate the dice I don't think this is luck. It's your problem that in some important part of the game you can't moderate the dice in your famour. I don't know what is the case with Kingsburg but I'm sure it's not "just" a single dice roll!

Luck is a factor as far as the roll of the die but not the biggest part of it. Like others have stated it really comes down to the choices you make. I have see in the several games my group has played that someone who has a rather large lead  in points has lost in the final round due to poor planning especially when it came to fighting during winter.  Never underestimate the winter season.

I agree with the others. The luck factor is present, but it's the choice of how you will make the best of what you roll that usually decides the games in my group.

 This thread might be good for people who don't like the soldier die roll:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/366312

That module sounds great!  I always found that the die roll was too random for this particular mechanic.

Granted, I have only played Kingsburg once, but I found that if you have poor die rolls (aka consistently low) you have a hard time winning, similar to an island settling game...

Xlyce said:

We were hoping we did a little better than the island settling game... I still think we did. Believe me or not, I have seen experienced Kingsburg players winning games (or at worst going really close to winning) even with very poor average die rolls.

I would suggest you to maybe play more than once... or just wait for the expansion.  As a worning, the player with more experience and/or skills will very often win even with poor rolls also playing with the expansion, however.

I don't think there is too much luck involved.  It never comes down to just one die roll that decides the winner.  Its all a balancing act.  Making the best use of what you roll is the key to this game.  In my experience, with the base game you spend more time building up an army because of the random die roll.  You won't know until the roll what your total strength is.  Whereas with the Soldier tokens, you don't rely on chance as much.  In essence, you are in control of your own destiny when you use the Soldier tokens.  You can choose how many extra troops to commit, even if you know it may not be enough.  So this allows you to focus more on getting resources and buildings, rather than just focusing on the military track.  In my game group the other night, we discussed this and all seemed to agree on this.  So I don't think its just me that has come to that conclusion.