Per this thread on BGG, there is some confusion about the line of sight rules in Descent 2E.  I'd like to know the official ruling.  The problem:

In the Line of Sight Example #2 on page 12 of the rulebook, Jain and the zombie are said not to have LOS, because neither of the 2 lines drawn in the example are sufficient to establish LOS.  However, the rules say that LOS can be established by drawing a line from "any corner to . . . any corner" of the tiles (emphasis in original).  So there are 16 possible lines to draw between their tiles, and at least one of those lines would establish LOS: from Jain's lower-left corner to the zombie's lower-right corner, for example, would pass right through the corner between the boulders.

There is a lot of speculation on the BGG forum, e.g. that maybe you can't trace these lines through the figures' own tiles--that you can't actually choose any corner, but must choose a relatively "forward" corner.  But that isn't consistent with the idea that, if I am attacking a large monster, I can target any of the tiles it occupies as my target (since some of those squares may not be the nearest tile to me).  The worse problem is the seeming arbitrariness of the distinction between cases with LOS and those without: if I can trace a LOS when 4 tiles apart, but not when 5 apart, but can again when 6 apart… it sounds like time for some house rules, or better yet, an official ruling.

Anyway, I think the question is clear: by a strict reading of the rules, Jain and the zombie do have LOS; but per the example they do not.  Is the example wrong, or are the rules missing something?

 The rules could be more explicit.  But in the example, the path passes through an enemy space on the way to a corner, so the LOS is blocked.

exy said:

What makes you think you have a choice of targeting the rear spaces of a large monster?  I remember the rules saying that which space you targeted was important for purposes of Blast, but I don't recall any suggestion that all spaces were targetable from all angles, and that certainly was not the case in 1e.

radiskull said:

Taking what you say on faith, I can understand why the example shows only the lines that it does.  Indeed, it is consistent with the rules, where they say the line cannot pass through a blocked space (i.e. one containing a figure).  It is a little funky, tough that the figure "blocking" the space is the one I'm trying to trace LOS to.  I don't have as much of a problem with that as some I've seen on BGG forums, but I can see a little irony there.  Certainly, the rules could have stood to have labored this point right around the area they're putting "any corner" in boldface.

It also still seems a little bit arbitrary that were the zombie one space south of his location in the example, Jain would have LOS. Arbitrary but acceptable, since I can imagine that he's just far enough behind the boulder in the example as printed.

Antistone said:

Fair enough. You are right, nothing in the rules says you can get away with choosing any space. We can put together from the idea radiskull put forward, that pieces block their own corners, that large monsters block their own "rearward" spaces, that you can't target the distant spaces under large monsters.  I guess this is how the rules are meant to be played. I assume I am not the only one to find this seeming inconsistency with the rules, though--hopefully FFG will toss this into a FAQ.

exy said:

You are definitely not alone. I caught that inconsistency myself of how your target blocks his own rear corner at which you wish to target him for LOS purposes. I play for now how the rules say to play because the Overlord's monsters with ranged must apply themselves by the same rules (albeit I am sure the ranged heroes will definitely be affected more often by this ruling). We will have to wait and see if anything changes.

On a side-note, can anyone use any weapon in this game, like the dwarf warrior uses a rune to cast spells?

Tromdial said:

There doesn't seem to be any rule against it.  Our group has had characters use different weapons that way.

You can't use someone else's starting weapon, because starting weapons can't be traded.  Other than that, yes, anyone can use any weapon - but certain skills will only work in combination with certain weapons.

 The rules are clear: "If the line passes through the edge of a map tile, a door, or a blocked space (a space containing a figure or obstacle), the target space is not in the line of sight". Since your line passes through a blocked space (regardless if it is your intended target) the rules state no LOS is attainable. As players of board games we must keep in mind that as immersive as we would like the game world to be, certain real-world laws must be "bent" to allow the game to be played as balanced and fun as possible. Just as we are not targeting the 3D model on the board (we are targeting a tile) the rules for LOS, as written, should be respected. In other words, yes it seems a bit wonky that the target is the figure causing the blocked space in our reality, but in the (board) game world it is perfectly justified and in fact necessary to allow for the strategy of the game to succeed.

Now that i look at the example in the rule book, FFG probably should have added your line as red to emphasize the target as blocking LOS. Yay for forums!

 It makes sense to say that if you don't have LOS to the front of your target you don't have LOS to anything behind it either. That seems pretty consistent.

I had the same thought as the OP, based on the "any corner" rule text. I even drew a diagram showing the line from Jain's bottom left corner to the zombie's bottom right corner. The "monster blocks LOS to itself" interpretation strikes me as bizarre. Added to that, a zombie below the first one would be in LOS, once the original zombie moved out of the way. I can't shoot the 2nd zombie because the 1st zombie is blocking my LOS, but the 1st zombie isn't in LOS?

I am also bothered by the fact that Leoric has LOS to the zombie. If an obstacle was between Leoric and the zombie on a straight orthogonal line LOS would be blocked, but on a diagonal line it's not?

I'm leaning towards a "cover" house rule. An obstacle on a straight line, orthogonal or diagonal, blocks LOS. Add one to the range for each obstacle that could potentially interfere with LOS. In the example, Leoric has no LOS and Jain would have to make a range 6 (4+2) attack. 
 

The rules are clear and are written as concisely as possible. The issue here is more some readers' expectations making them trying to read something else into the text. Yes, there is a little inconsistency in the application, but its now trivially easy and certain to apply LOS which, for a board game of this nature, is a good result on balance IMO.

Yeah. The rules are clear. The rules state that line of sight is blocked by "(a space containing a figure or obstacle)". Well, just like you couldn't see the goblin behind the Ettin, you can't see the corner of the square behind the Ettin. Seems pretty clear to me.

Can't see that big hulk of an Ettin behind that whelp of a goblin either.

I found it helpful to map things out.  After several iterations I think I've corrected all my mistakes.  The green lines represent Descent 2E line of sight rules (D2E).  The grey-blue diagonal line is both D2E and a traditional center-to-center (C2C) LOS.  The grey line down to the 5 is also a C2C.  The numbers represent range.  The dashes are blocked LOS.  D2E opens up a lot more targets than C2C, which is a good thing.   A compromise would be to draw the C2C lines and include all squares touched, including at corners.  That would only exclude the 4 to the right of the zombie and the 5 below that 4.  The 3 in the upper right would also be excluded if those weren't already blocked squares.  I still dislike both of the zombie rulings in the original diagram.  Maybe I'll get out my marker and write "Curve ball" as an ability on all missile attacks -- it's magic! 

J doesn't have LOS to the Zombie because the line pass through the space of the  zombie and the rules explicity doesn't allow that. The LoS is traced by corner to corner, and if there isn't any obstacles (including the edges blacks of the tile, treated as obstacles), the LoS is blocked.  

Ephel

ps sorry for my english :)