A question came up in our first 5 player game of Civ last night. When you invest a coin token, you remove the token and get an investment token, then reduce the number of coins on your dial. In my question, a coin was taken off the Tech card "Democracy" and converted in to an investment token. The Democracy tech allows you to convert 6 trade in to a coin, for a max of 4 coins.
With Investments removing tokens the question came up, is it a max of 4 uses of the tech ability, or a max of 4 tokens on the card at any one time?
We played this as a Max of 4 coin tokens at any one time.
Thank you for your input!
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Well if i recall correctly, the card does say "maximum four coins" or something like that. Not "maximum four times".
If you have four coins on the tech and loose one, for whatever reason, there are only three coins there and thus it would be legal to use it again...
Pax Magnifica Bellum Gloriosum
I tend to agree. The card does say a max of four coins on the card itself. I am not sure if the designer of the game ever thought that coins could be removed for any reason (or maybe he did) and intended that the coins would track the progress of cards like this.
It is a very valid question though, worthy of an FAQ update.
Clarity of thought before rashness of action
I believe the design is intended to do just that: funnel your economy (coins) into other paths to victory. This would make it harder to go for the Economic Victory if you invested more that once or twice. But this disadvantage is balanced by the investments bolstering a victory route of your choice.
This cames from rulebook (p. 26 "Coin Tokens"):
"Coin tokens placed on a tech card as a reward for accomplishing a certain task are treated just like coins on the map, except that there is a maximum number of times a given task will provide a coin token."
So answering the question it is a max of 4 uses of the tech ability.
PS Sorry if i said something incorrectly, but i not very good in english. :)
Sorry for doubleposting, but next day brought me reflection. In core game, to say that you can gain coin token only 4 times during play from (e.g.) pottery, is the same as to say that you can put only 4 coin tokens on pottery card, because there is no possibility to lose coin token, so in both cases you gain at most 4 coin tokens by pottery tech during play. So it stll isn't clear which interpretation is right and has to be applied in expansion, where such possiblity appears.
Me and my friends play Civilization a lot and the same question appeard soon after we bought expansion.
After reading rulebook carefully, we decided, that: "In order to invest a coin, the player discards one of their coin token from play (lowering their number of coins by one) and then gains one investment marker." means, that someone just changes his or her number of coins on dial, still keeping tokens in order to know how many times someone used specific tech ability. The good thing (?) about this solution, is that no one is able to receive too many coin tokens from one tech card, what may give him or her great advantage (for example; receiving coin from Code of Laws, investing in Military-Industrial Complex, taking battle to receive another coin, and so on). But on the other hand, we have problems with counting which coins have been already invested and which not.
After reading this topic, I would agree, that we were wrong. Limit on tech cards was created becouse of economic victory, and without ability to gain more than four coins from one tech, it is hard to win the game this way. Other players will invest received coins, but someone who wants to accumulate them, will not afford him/herself to spend even one. When we assume, that there can not be more than four tokens on one tech card, but players can still receive new when they have spent the old ones, those of them who want to win by economic victory are able to invest and later accumulate fifteen coins.
Like Piotrek, sorry for my english ;)
this problem also came up during our first gameplay with the expansion.
I thought about this for a while now. At the beginning my opinion was that it is too powerful if someone is able to invest a coin every turn (e.g. with Ankor Wat and Pottery). But on the other hand it is true that a player aiming for an economic victory would have a hard handicap if invested coins are lost for him.
So by now I would also tend to say that coins are removed from the tech card.
my personal opinion:
it's simple...ONLY COIN TOKENS may be invested...so, in basic rules is written: "Coin tokens are used to record coins gained from certain tech cards such as Democracy". (you don't gain coin TOKEN from map or from building...).
soo..you may invest coin if you like. you put it away and then "you lower your number of coins" (on your dial). so you have to put away coin from tech card..and yes..it's logical that you can gain it again...you cannot track how many coins did you gain/spend..
if you won't be able to again gain invested coins from tech card, it will be very difficult to score great result on investment card...+ going to Economic victory...
maybe i'm wrong, but it's seems logical to me...we will se in new FAQ version.. :)
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