Enormous advances have been made in the art and science of looking cool while shooting things in recent years.

I'm almost in agreeance with you. Ther sheer size, power and battlefield presence of a fully armoured astartes to me always works best with an almost contemptuous hipshooting stance, backs never bending and pace never slowing.

Astartes in scout armour, however… especially if they're using sniper rifles that a normal human would require to be bipod mounted (at least)? That's awesome. (Imagine a 7.5 foot toall ubermench running arround with a Barret anti-materiel rifle like this, jsut running and shooting)

I get the feeling that Marines and their armor are designed the way they are because of their shooting stance. If they stood the way those people do they would end up looking really awkward. Not to mention the design of the shoulders on power armor pretty much makes a stock on most weapons look really strange.

+++++The sheer size, power and battlefield presence of a fully armoured astartes to me always works best with an almost contemptuous hipshooting stance, backs never bending and pace never slowing.+++++

A perfectly justifiable position! I certainly don't want Marines to start wearing camouflage (camouflage being the colour of cowardice and all that).

But I think all this tactical whatnot looks totally sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCvwi75vxEQ

+++++If they stood the way those people do they would end up looking really awkward. Not to mention the design of the shoulders on power armor pretty much makes a stock on most weapons look really strange.+++++

I should mention I would be quite happy to redesign Marines armour (particularly the shoulder pads) to allow the use of a stock. Battle Dress (the powered armour in Marc Miller's Traveller RPG) had a sorta socket thing on the shoulder you plugged the butt of your PGMP in to, so possibly a Marine could do something similar with his bolter.

--

I have this book, 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medieval-Swordsmanship-Illustrated-Methods-Techniques/dp/1581600046/

that includes a lot of How To illustrations like:-

I think those poses look way more badass than the typical Marine vaguely waving a sword stance we normally get.

And Sam Fisher in Splinter Cell: Conviction uses an unusual but nifty looking Center Axis Relock shooting technique:-

http://www.sabretactical.com/html/center_axis_relock__car_.html

For me, it isn't a search for Realism. It is more looking for ways to look cool.

professor_kylan said:

Well… the guns are modelled as big, but they fire a solidified sliver of poison along an invisible laser beam… not exactly the most fearsome weapon in terms of recoil (if you look at the model it becomes clear it is a slightly oversize lasgun with extras, and a port for the ammunition). You almost certainly wouldn't fire them on the move (they are Heavy weapons in the tabletop game), but that's because they are precision weapons, not because they have significant recoil.

 I'm pretty sure the Astartes hunch, only a fool presents a bigger target than he has to and the black carapace makes them able to control the ablative and modular plate so they don't. 

PS. Running and shooting is fun.

Whenever Astartes are portrayed in motion, they always move with astonishing fluidity, speed and grace. The latest Space Marine videogame for Xbox 360 illustrates this nicely. There is a real contrast between the stolid looking, immobile Astartes who graces the various Chapter Approved heraldic guides and how they move in real life. Despite being the size of small cars when armoured, they move like Olympic athletes in lycra…in fact, even faster, in practice.

As for tacticool, I'm down with that. The Rule of Cool covers all aspects of 40k: if it's cool, use it. And I agree, this stuff is cool! 

Of course, what's tactical for one army/chapter is folly for another. Modern tactical techniques for weapons usage have of course evolved through a number of stages, including the  Fairbairn, Sykes, and Applegate method which included a lot of freer, "shooting from the hip" style movements.

Given the diversity within the Astartes community, one imagines that for every chapter that uses the well drilled, sensible early 21st century tactical techniques outlined above, there are as many chapters who use pistols like Sykes and Fairburn… or, to use more extreme examples, 16th century Highwaymen, Dirty Harry or John Woo. 

As for stocks, perhaps the massive Astartes physique and power armour means that they're just not required?

And as has been suggested, one imagines that given their speed and power, astartes would be terrifyingly effective in weapon drills, room clearance and the like. They could reload their bolters faster than it takes for a shell casing to hit the floor (see Phil Sibberling's astartes ammo storage concepts) fire effectively from the hip or at distance and move seamlessly in support of each other when working in teams. The term "posthuman shock" has been used in Dan Abnett's novels to describe how normal humans feel after seeing Astartes in action - a bit like Tank Shock.   

From a personal perspective, for some reason I always imagined the Death Guard as being particularly excellent exponents of the modern, tactical style of shooting. I don't know why I formed this impression! Perhaps it's based on their preponderence of tactical units, and their tendency to get the crappy, infantry based jobs during the Great Crusade. I think their may even have been a reference within a HH novel to their excellent and terrifyingly effective weapons drills. 

 To be honest, I like all of this and think it should definitely be imported into 40k… by the Imperial Guard. It's cool, yeah, but it's really not for power armored Space Marines. We're talking about warrior-monks that seem to almost disdain cover in favor of getting in close to wreck stuff. This all looks like it would fit better in a squad of Elysians or Stormtroopers or Grenadiers than a Tactical Marine Squad.

Lightbringer said:

Fully agreed in this regard. As I see it, the combat acumen and developed combat instincts of the average Space Marine are such that they make the finest contemporary soldiers seem like incompetent rookies, while their physical prowess makes the very best athletes in the world look like clumsy children. Bracing a firearm or even holding the weapon in both hands are entirely optional - their strength, and the rigidity of their armour make it so that firing their hand-made, armour-plated thirty-kilo Bolters one-handed still allows for amazing stability, while the presence of auto-sense targeting in the weapon (allowing the firer to see from his gun's iron sights if he so desires) means that aiming takes a somewhat different form in the case of the Astartes.

I've long liked the idea that individual Space Marines don't actually think about fighting when they're in combat - their instincts are so keenly-honed that they can fight with terrifying efficiency without thinking about it, leaving their minds clear to regard the broader tactical and strategic concerns. This in turn makes them more effective soldiers because they don't have to divide attention between the immediate matter of killing the enemy and the longer-term goal of winning the battle.

I have to say the reloading picture just looks plain awkward to me.

Though I will accept that Costa guy does have a handsome beard…

Those sword poses are pretty wicked and could be applied to the Astartes very easily, though maybe not those stances in particular. Most melee weapons tend to be one handed and not two.

Great article!  Just a few points to add on to the general concensus:

1) Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.  I can get why marines can look slow doing mag changes in the video game but reload with efficent actions.  Plus it's a video game.  Captain Titus does not have to retain his mags ever and transitions to a one sided chain saw.  I'm jealous. 

2) If you're in power armour you've got protection wrapped around your entire body.  The rest of us are stuck with front/back and side sapi plates so tactical movements intended for close quarter shooting like the ones you see above try to maximize the effectiveness of your sapi plates by presenting them forward.  Look at the law enforcement dude turned to the side to minimize his profile since he's probably not wearing more than kevlar inserts. 

3)Space marines don't need beards to get an invulnerable save. 

 Full disclosure, this is a personal opinion. I think that the assault rifle firing position with the supporting arm holding the weapon further up the barrel than typical looks awkward, not cool. That's just me, though.

+++++As for stocks, perhaps the massive Astartes physique and power armour means that they're just not required?+++++

Oh aye, you can totally justify them not needing stocks. My desire for stocks just comes because I think it looks way cooler if guns have stocks:-

I think it looks far more… professional to have the gun tucked in tightly against the shoulder like that.

+++++Full disclosure, this is a personal opinion. I think that the assault rifle firing position with the supporting arm holding the weapon further up the barrel than typical looks awkward, not cool.+++++

It looked a bit weird to me when I first saw it, but it has kind of grown on me. And I can see how holding the gun as close to the muzzle as possible MIGHT give you more control over where you are pointing it.

I think there is a debate on the validity of the technique though, so it seems like an excuse to have Marines argue constantly about the best way to hold their guns!

+++++To be honest, I like all of this and think it should definitely be imported into 40k… by the Imperial Guard.+++++

I kinda go back and forth. 40k was written in 1987 with the Vietnam war and particularly movies like Platoon and Apocalypse Now defining what people thought of Soldiers. Since then, things have changed and it is Iraq/Afghanistan and games like Call of Duty that are in peoples minds.

So on the one hand, the modern first world soldier is dead cool. And we surely need to be telling soldier stories that are relevant to what people are seeing on the news.

On the other hand, I still kinda see Guard training as looking more like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pjYxhzPJgE#t=13m09s

(a documentary about the Battle of the Somme - soldiers train by bayoneting sandbags suspended from a frame without much enthusiasm while someone shouts at them)

rather than, say, The Art of the Tactical Carbine.

And an environment like that, Marines doing Xtreme High Speed Low Drag Tactical hyperprofessional whatnot makes them stand out.

The best thing about the Guard is that they run the gamut from 18th century gun lines to 21st century black ops Delta Force helicopter insertion teams. Everything fits.

Gaire said:

I agree. I can't stand to hold a rifle like that, it feels like my wrist is twisted all wrong. I can understand why it is a good position though. My instinct is to hold a rifle [such as an M4] by it's pistol grip and the vertical area in front of the clip. It's a short grip though, your hands would be really close together which may make it harder to control your weapon when you fire it. The long grip in those pictures is probably a lot more stable for firing since the gun has less leverage on your hand.