Charmander said:

I'm hoping that the use of a Force Weapon doesn't count as double dipping.  It would be a shame if you can't make an attack with the weapon and still use the 'power' to inflict extra damage.  I also hope that a Librarian with Furious Assault or Swift attack can use the psychic 'power' of the Force Weapon with each strike, not just once per turn, but I'm not sure if that's legal.

HappyDaze said:

Page 155 is pretty clear on this. Everytime you hit and do damage, then you can channel. Maybe it should be limited. Maybe.

Alex

I don't have any of the books with me at the moment, but I know in our DH group we treat the use of a force weapon with contested WP roll can only be done on 1 action, and treat it as a psychic attack. So said psyker with Swift attack swings and hits twice. The psyker can only channel one of those attacks. Since I never play a psyker Im not sure if thats a house rule or actual rules but I would treat DW the same way.

This will stir up some commotion. Some answers from Ross Watson:

> 1) Can pistols burst in close combat in DW? (And if yes, doesn't
> that carry a high risk of wildly straying shots?)

No. Pistols fired in melee fire a single shot.
 

> 2) If no, does that mean this is a DW-specific change or does that
> apply to all of 40k RP?

It applies to Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.

> 3) What actions can be done with pistols in close combat other than
> Standard Attacks? Multiple Attack (if so only 2-handed attacks only
> or does swift strike, etc also apply)? All-out attack? Guarded
> attack? I am asking because page 240 indicates more than standard
> attacks are possible.

Standard Attack (or as part of two-weapon fighting) only.
 

> 4) Does the answer given to question 3 carry on to all of 40K RP or
> only DW?

It applies to Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.

Will post it to all 3 forums.

Alex

 well... thats interesting... pretty harsh, but good clarification. Good improvement for melee I guess. I wouldn't say its too terrible, it just means that you dont want to bring a gun into a swordfight. Same as how the reverse is also true.

That's seemingly the opposite of what we've been told before, but whatever

MILLANDSON said:

I know. I wonder if it's the last thing we've heard on it. Me, I'm going to allow swift/lightning strikes with pistols. Maybe it's worth double-checking it? Wouldn't be the first time for a swift correction... anyway, I am not going to ask the man. Don't want to pester him.

Alex

I have to add a thought here: how do you recognize an Assault Marine's handedness when he wields Bolt Pistol and Chainsword? The Bolt Pistol will be in the off-hand because swift/lightning attack do not apply?

I'll stick to the house rule that swift/lightning attack do apply.

Alex

MILLANDSON said:

Not just contradictory to what we've previously been told, but contradicted by the same rules guru from the past.  After all, when this was originally asked and answered on the Dark Heresy forums oh, almost 3 years ago now, it was Ross who answered people.

I think the change is in attempt to balance certain aspects of play.  But given the character I play sucks in melee (WS 24) and does not do TWW, this really turns him into 'Stealer treats to be anymore.  In almost 2 years of playing Stealers are the only things I've ever had to be in melee with consistently and had to rely on the spray and pray with a pistol.

I don't know.  I dislike the change given the experiences I've had and am having with the game I'm in.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

I would say some rules plain hurt to change in existing campaigns, especially if people have built characters and encounters around a different interpretation (previous RAW); in my past experiences my group would simply hold off on implementing changes like this until the next round.  Or at least allows the player who is boned by said change to make character alterations to fit with the new direction.  I hope for your Adept's sake your GM does the same.

Charmander said:

Dual Inferno Pistols? It's the only that comes to mind against Genestealers. Even then they will have one good dodge. At least.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Given the above do you think that DHs dual shot can be executed in melee range with tww and two pistols?

Elesthor said:

Page 140 says that Ranged Combat Talents apply, so things like Mighty Shot Talent would be in... this leads me to believe that Dual Shot (which does exist in DW too) might be in too.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Given I play an Adept in Dark Heresy, you're talking about three talents that I would have to take as very expensive Elite Advances; Pistol Training (Melta), Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) and Gunslinger.  I've already got Ambidextrous as it's available to all Adepts at Rank 3 (Scribe).  Pistol Training (Melta) is not available on the branch I took.  Our Deathwatch game hasn't actually started up yet.

-=Brother Praetus=-

For completeness Happy Daze's suggested amendments surrounding the Neuroglottis:

"Step 1) Add Survival to the list of Starting Skills on page 36.

Step 2) Remove Tracking from the list of Starting Skills on page 36.

Step 3) Replace the text for the Neuroglottis with the following:

Neuroglottis: The Space Marine may detect any poisons or toxins by taste with a successful Challenging (+0) Awareness Test. He may also detect any poisons or toxins by smell with a successful Hard (-20) Awareness Test. The Space Marine treats Tracking as a Basic Skill, and may (at the GM's discretion) gain a +10 bonus to any Tracking Tests against an opponent he has tasted. However, it is important to note that none of these bonuses apply if the Space Marine is wearing a helmet for a sealed set of armour (e.g., Power Armour, Artificer Armour, or Terminator Armour).

I think that this accomplishes what I want without drastic alteration. It gives all Space Marines the training to Survive in hostile environments. Space Marines will still have a reason to purchase Tracking (from Rank 2 General Space Marine), and both Space Wolves and Storm Wardens will still have an advantage in purchasing Tracking from their Chapter Advances."

Alex