Evilref said:

Like I said, if anyone can pull off a book that will make people like me, the sceptics, happy to play a Space Marine, it's FFG. It's just, from first glance, Space Marines fight, it's what they do. But then, most of my games are generally only 10% combat or so, since my RT playtest group generally feel that if they have to fight (and it wasn't the only option) they've failed, so yea, Deathwatch might not be for them. I guess I'm just hoping that it's going to be a book that can appeal to everyone, rather than one that ends up on the shelf unplayed because the majority of it is "For The Emperor! *bang bang bang*".

 Good Point,

Though I would love to see some Chapter vs. Inquisition politics instead of the though has been unfaithfull blah...bang bang

I think this is clearly something to be concerned about, but when I listen to Ross in his interviews with D6G and other podcasts I think it's clear he will address it in the core of the book.  

There are a lot of stories that can be told with DW marines that are filled with traditional drama even if we DO assume they are all emotionless carbon copies of each other.  When someone is loyal to the Imperium AND hates Xenos what do you do when you're ordered by the Inquisition to work with a Farseer?  Hunt down a Radical Inquisitor or follow orders?  What happens when killing that Ork Kaptin means a Hive Fleet eats a world you have NO CHANCE of getting to in time?

Now throw into that a Blood Angel trying to hide the mutation in his gene-seed from his parties Ultramarines Apothecary and you have yourself the makings for some serious roleplaying.  

Just because the players aren't tasked with solving a mystery doesn't mean they won't be helping an Inquisitor solve one either!  The Grey Knights book are a great example of that sort of thing.

In the end though, I think Ross Watson has earned my trust.  Is this an issue to be concerned about?  ABSOLUTELY.  Is this exactly the kind of thing Mr. Watson has jumped on in the past?  Yup!  Listen to him on D6G a little while ago.  When he is presented with an issue like this he sees it as an opportunity to make a more unique and awesome game, not something that makes the game "unpossible in the traditional sense".

I'm not gonna worry about this till I can see a copy of the book in my hands.  Then if he DOESN'T deal with it I'll complain!

It's probably going to be a military RPG. Non-combat roleplay will still be at least semi-military in nature. If you can imagin roleplaying a knight templar - or even a fantasy paladin or Navy SEAL, for that matter - you can imagine what playing a Space Marine might be like. Deathwatch is more unorthodox in its methodology than the chapters of origin, from which members are chosen. They're already veterans and can be trusted to schedule their own way of accomplishing tasks, and even though they'll still want to be grim hardcore warriors they have to cooperate with brothers who do things differently. Sometimes very differently. The kill-team will most likely also work close to an inquisitor, who can go about doing his job however he damn well pleases, and will expect his men to keep his pace.

The band of brothers theme will be strong. As a kill-team, working behind enemy lines, going into hot zones and assaulting strongpoints without backup will be common fare. They are an elite of elites, and will have more freedom and carry a higher degree of responsibility thanks to that. As I understand it, ex-Deathwatch members return different from when they left. They've seen, done and know things above and beyond even what the other Space Marines have experience with. The game will probably reflect that.

Space Marines have no use for spare time. Thus the 15 mins, when cloistered in their fortress-monastery. I doubt Deathwatch members have more time for leisure. And why would they want to? Who said being a soldier have to be about sitting around farting, occasionally firing your gun? Military service on their level encompasses more. Recon and other investigation, escort duties, building and guarding strongpoints and holy places, planning and tactics, the logistics behind setting up and keeping hidden bases, shipboard existence while travelling to and from a mission, certainly xeno-biology to pinpoint weaknesses, perhaps even diplomacy and politics in some cases.

Still, the question is if you're even interested in roleplaying a relatively single-minded, hardcore dogmatic/religious, merely near-human ultrawarrior? If not, Rogue Trader and/or Dark Heresy might be a better choice.

Another thing I'd like to reiterate is that this is at a crusade level.  I know alot are talking about hand to hand, on the ground combat when you say the game will be all about combat, but this could be so much more than that.  The players could help plan missions and strategies on a sector-wide level.  There would be high military tactics involved as opposed to just ground level.  This is an area that neither DH or RT covers in much detail and can sto;; offer a great deal of roleplaying as each member (as well as any inquisitor they work with) might feel differently about what is the next best planet to target.  Yes it is still roleplaying with a military bend to it, but it's a huge step above dungeon-crawl killing.

jareddm said:

Which is likely the thing to save it, given that, if it was just the squad doing missions, without any sort of larger events taking place, it would just be dungeon-crawling. Hearing that makes me feel better about the game.

I'll look forward to seeing more.

MILLANDSON said:

In addition, knowing this sort of stuff has actually made my group almost interested in trying it out, which is no small feat when my fiancee, one of my players, lives by the statement of "Space Marines = dull".

I have been entertaining this idea for a campaign involvong all three games. Each player could, if they chose, play three characters, an Inquistor or Cadre member, a Rogue Trader or Retinue member, and a Adeptus Astartes.   Think of the possiblities, hardcore investigation and roleplaying, space combat and Xenos smashing!  It would be alot of work but it could be awesome.   You could run it an adventure at a time.

Drais said:

I was thinking the same thing, it'd be damn fun, and let me do all the fun investigation/exploration I like whilst also letting people who wanted to be Marines be Marines.

I am sure the FFG guys have done their best but I remain sceptical.  You call in the DW Marines when the baddies secret lair has been found and his diabolical plot revealed.  Then the Marines go in and do the Emperor's divine work with bolter and power sword.  

At the moment I am seeing this as a sourcebook for DH, but I hope to be proven wrong.

What has been really amazing to me is the belief that Marines only crave battle, that they cannot have more depth.  Having read the Space Wolves, Soul Drinkers, and (shrug) Blood Ravens novels there is much more depth to them.  Scholars and philosophers throughout their histories.  Admittedly, much is on the nature of war and the Chapters place within the Emperor's plan, but still...  While they are genetically altered and enhanced, hypno-indoctrinated killing machines they are still inherently human.  In the Eisenhorn novel Malleus one of Marines in the parade disaster tries to shield and protect a young girl; only to have his head exploded by her because she was one of the "trophy witches" brought back by the crusade.  A "killing machine" with no depth of personality wouldn't have bothered.

It varies from chapter to chapter the degree of hypno-indoctrination and callousness.

-=Brother Praetus=-

it's gonna be combat-heavy, no doubt on it.

don't you like combat? it's not your game.

as I see it you'll have the opportunity to play something like those old beautiful war movies on ww2 like "The longest Day" or "Tora! Tora! Tora!".

how you could instead run a wide story, with a development of body and soul, friendship and hate, it's something I have to think on a bit.

maybe I'm gonna be surprised...

Brother Praetus said:

That is what I am talking about the Marines on loan to the Deathwatch are going to be exemplars of their chapters, the best and the brightest.

Okay, the cliché of the Deathwatch is: They into a battle with aliens, kill them and go leaving no traces of their enemies (something like that was written in a White Dwarf, they didn't explain how they get rid of monster-corpses like a carnifex).

Realistically sure that's part of their duties. However if they are sent to reinforce the defense of a planet against a hive fleet they have to work with the locals for days before the actual battle starts, and maybe they will have to stay for days after the battle is over and help repairing the damage. They can work as a bodyguard for an inquisitor (and getting in the line of fire between different factions in the Inquisition, having to chose a side), have to take part in negotiations with xenos (if there have to be negotiations no Imperial commander would be crazy enough to exclude the leader of the Deathwatch detachment (unless he tries to kill them, what leads to another kind of adventure when they are hunted by aliens and traitorous Imperials)). And I'm not even starting about the possibilities of roleplaying different chapters in the group.

Evilref said:

This is the best statement I've seen yet in regards to this book.

By the time the Deathwatch are called in, the actual undercover work and investigation are close to being done by the Inquisitor and his retinue that called them in.

Or things have gone so incredibly badly that the Inquisitor and his team are completely screwed unless the Deathwatch wade in and begin slaughtering a way back out.