I've posted a couple of comments regarding a red box before and it's nice to see some support for it here on the boards. When I saw the Star Wars beginner box I was hoping they may be thinking the same thing for WFRP.

Like a few others here, I think a $100 MSRP entry fee into the game is pretty steep and could stop quite a few from trying out the game. Yeah, I realize a lot will buy it from online discounters, but still it's not cheap at all.   The negative backlash from 2nd edition fans and screams of "it's a boardgame" may have killed off some interest. This may be a way to get some back.

An abbreviated rulebook (no advancements, set stances) pregens with action cards or just an action sheet, a few tokens and stand ups, a few dice an original adventure (2 combat encounters, 1 social, 1 chase)  to showcase the system. 

I think it's doable. I'd buy it just for the adventure and dice.

(As an aside, The Enemy Within is now at the printers.)

Herr Arnulfe said:

I think it is too early yet to know what SWEotE final product will be. Reading the beta boards, some players are calling for and already creating "bits", for strain, critical cards, talents cards etc… The only big difference between SWEotE and WFRP3 that really reduce the bits factor are fixed actions vs. actions cards. Yet, most WFRP3 players love the action cards system. However, the game was badly marketed at launch, and a system which could have been a breath of fresh air to an aging RPG market, became instead a complete misconception and shot at first sight.

You're right though that a Beginner's Box wouldn't be able to deliver the full WFRP3 play experience. No, what the Beginner's Box would do is get players to understand that WFRP3 is indeed an RPG, not a board game (even though it has mechanisms inspired from board games, which makes it easier to learn for new players to the RPG genre), introduce the custom dices and action systems, and make it so at a cheaper price, with a fun adventure in a nicely designed box, that will get families and playing groups to say "hey that's a pretty cool game, maybe we should try the full experience of it".

Cheers

Ceodryn

Ceodryn said:

So first they enjoy a nice, lite $20 version of the game, then they plop down $60 or $100 for the core box, and before long they're studying component storage tutorials on Youtube? Isn't this a slightly romanticized idea of how gamers actually operate? People who want the stuff will buy the stuff, even if it costs them $100. The system basics are explained quite well in promo materials and internet forums. Only RPG internet theorists think in terms of testing the system that underlies the components before making a calculated purchase decision, and those types of gamers probably have friends who bought the game and can give them a test run anyway.

Herr Arnulfe said:

So, you're basically saying that a Beginner's Box concept is useless for any RPG game? 

A Beginner's Box is an instant gratification purchase. It's cheap enough that you don't have to sweat about opening your wallet (or buying it for your kids or friends' kids - Sorry but not everyone can shell $60-$100 on a game), nor have to regret it if you end up not liking the game. Plus, a potential buyer shouldn't have to research for days internet forums to understand what to buy and what are the mechanisms (and let's have pity on the WFRP3 potential buyer who starts such a research and arrives on this FFG board, what a mess). It's a game, you want to play it, not research it ad nauseum.

A Beginner's Box provides a quick and easy entry to the game. The components in the Beginner's Box should obviously be able to be re-used in the full game, otherwise the gamer will regret buying it. 

Of course people who WANT the stuff will buy the stuff, even if it costs $100. The issue is to convince people who are lukewarm, the majority of potential buyers out there. The hardcore fans will always fall, they are not the one FFG needs to convince. 

As far as having friends who bought WFRP3  (or other editions for that matter) and can showcase it… ha ha! Right… like WFRP is such a well known universe and game. In the U.S., finding a WFRP group is like the Grail's Quest. 

Cheers

Ceodryn

Ceodryn said:

A Beginner's Box for v3 wouldn't sell people on the game. It might convince them that the basic system is good, but that's not the issue for most people - there are tons of good systems out there. The issue is whether the components are worth the hassle overall, and that's something you can only figure out by getting the core box and giving it the old college try. EotE doesn't have the "X-factor" of massive fiddly bits, so its Beginners Box is a more accurate representation of what you'd actually be getting yourself into after buy-in.

Also, as you say yourself, a Beginner's Box for WFRP wouldn't be able to cover the WH setting. So a WFRP Beginner's Box would only be showcasing the system and players would still have to do their own research on the setting. Everybody knows the LotR and SW settings already.

So I'm guessing the Pathfinder and D&D beginner boxes were not financially successful and did not convice potential customers to ultimately buy the books? I mean, their settings and rulesets are well known enough to gamers RPG gamers, and if they are willing to spend a hundred instead of $30, why bother producing it?

sepayne7l said:

WFRP v3 is in a class of its own in terms of component-bloat, and it will probably remain alone in that class forever.

My guess is that every beginner's box etc. falls short on delivering the full experience of setting/ game mechanics/ components etc. Their purpose IMHO is to give beginners a first impression and hands-on experience with the game. What parts of the game should be presented in a beginner's box is open to discussion, of course. Often, rules for character creation and advancement are left out or severely cut down. Only a selection of races/ classes/ careers/ archetypes will be playable. Et cetera. There would never be hundreds and thousands of cards, blips, tokens and similar coffin nails in a beginner's box. ;)

So, Herr Arnulfe is right: A beginner's box would fail at offering the full WF experience. But I think most people will happily admit they are fully aware they won't get a full experience with such a starter's set, and never expected that much. If they get a fun evening out of it, that's great. If they're buying the core set or guides & vaults and, generally, more stuff after that: A++, success beyond expectations!

asri said:

If the v3 Beginner's Box provided the following rules and components in addition to the custom dice and Intro adventure with pre-gens, then it would probably give newbies enough of a taste to decide whether the components are worth the hassle:

- Stance meters and Progress tracks

- enough Action and Talent cards to provide a sense of how they work

- Refresh tokens

- a few Status Condition cards

- a sample Party sheet

- a few spell cards

Now FFG could probably do a bare-bones version of these components that fits on 2 cardstock sheets, but they'd also have to include rules for using them, and that's where I think it would extend beyond the scope of a Beginner's Box.

Thought I'd share my two cents from someone who's following the DNDNext stuff.

Instead of treating the beginner's box as a "stripped down version" it could be presented like this:

Present the core mechanics and create simplified versions of the more compicated rules with the explanation that this is one way to use them, but the full game will have others (the actual mechanic from the core book).

I haven't really read anything on this game, because well I don't want to risk $80 on a game I've not had the opportunity to try out.  However, I'm planning on picking up the Edge of the Empire beginner box.

I believe there are some differences in the mechanics between the games (having different dice). It may be worth introducing new concepts that more mirror these new dice, that are described as I mentioend above as a "basic version" which can be slotted in for a more advanced "core version".

Very interested to see something like this come about however they might do it.  Beginner boxes have often been my entry point to any game, and let me decide if it was worth continuing.

I don't think we will see a Beginners Box for 3e, but FFG could consider doing one for 4e - if they will make it. I think that Beginners Box is a good idea to intorude the game to new players and give players from previuos edition a chance to try the game without having to buy the core set. It cheaper then the core set but does not give that much of content. Maybe FFG will make a WFRP Beginners Box but for sure not for the edition.

Cheers.

PS. The silience from FFG make everyone nervous and promisses nothing good. They could ad least give us some news. Maybe GenCon will clear things up but I don't belive in this game any more. FFG made to many mistakes with this line. It's more probable that they will restart WFRP with a 3.5 or 4 e then that they will continue 3e.