It might well be that that is indeed their perspective. We don't know, they might as well have outlines for two or three more supplements, but want to finish TEW before they tell us any other news/ plans.

The "fiasco" referred to here is that FFG failed to mention WFRP at GenCon 2012 four weeks ago. The missed the obvious (and kinda traditional) chance to promote one of their product lines, rally fans and wet their appetites. They would not have needed a new release for that, I think, The Enemy Within would have had enough weight to pull that off.

Instead, they continue to fail communication-wise. The custom dice are out of stock. Whether they intend to produce more of them or quietly snuff the line, it would be so easy to put up an extra notice: "We're sorry the custom dice are currently out of stock in our webstore. Please check your FLGS or other online retailers that still have them in stock. Alternatively, you'll find more dice (along with lots of other cool stuff) within the following products…" Without such a notice it simply looks like the mark of death for the game.

Whether the WFRP 3 line has run its course or not, the (lack of) communication on the part of FFG is a failure, yes.

You get these threads for all of their RPG lines after a while. And yet they're still publishing Dark Heresy material (which kinda surprises me, actually). Sure, they may stop the line any day now (though I don't believe they will), but the lack of communication about future releases doesn't mean anything - that's just FFG being FFG, business as usual.

 I contacted FFG customer support urging them to speak out to stop the circulation of rumours etc.  No word on doing so (likely requires oodles of approvals) but did receive an assurance I should not worry as a fan - that "WFRP isn't going anywhere" (not in the it's dead in water sense but rather in the "game is not being killed off/shelved" - it is remaining a product line - sense).

And I remind of mentions that there is playtesting going of other stuff but it's under nondisclosure agreements so more than "I know somebody doing something' more not known.

Since I haven´t played any WFRP (2nd or 3rd ed.) from the inception of Dark Heresy, I also don´t frequent this part. You are with no big releases for a while (as was Dark Heresy this year by the way) and you are turning into lynchh mob. From few topics I read I say that some reactions are more whiny than those of an Eldar player…

Agreed really.

..serum anyone?

No? Sigh. There goes my plan for raising A FREAKIN ARMY OF ÜBERFANS 

TorogTarkdacil812 said:

Honestly, we don't give a crap about releases.  Our concern is that they don't care about communication with their customers.  They are beneath the industry standard of communicating with fans other than treating them like little cash machines.

You're absolutely right that this is a lynch mob.  Our purpose is to get Frankenstein to step out of his castle and address the mob.

jh

What I find a bit discomforting is the patented radio silence FFG likes to keep on their forums. Not knowing if they even write material for wfrp anymore bugs me a lot more than postponed release dates.

This lack of communication lacks style, considering above all that the wfrp community is very creative, productive and certainly not as inflammatory as other groups out there on the internet. I mean, these are supportive people that a community manager could talk to without getting shredded to pieces, I'd like to think. Even something like: "Hi guys, we're working on something but I'm not allowed to talk about it (yet)." would be enough for me at this point.

As for release dates, well, we all play wfrp here so we are used to seeing our beloved setting being published over decades, by all sorts of publishers and fan sites and spread out across all conceivable channels anyhow. If the next thing gets here a few months later it won't kill me, I just would like to know it's in the making.

Most game developers create policies about communications on the forum and for good historical reasons.  In as a whole its a poor business practice even if their is this kind of "community pressure" to be overtly involved on a daily "posting on the forums" level.  The reason is simple.  Everything anyone employed at FFG says on the forum becomes a commitment, even if that post uses vague words like "we might do something", "we are thinking about doing something", "We are talking about doing something".  The community will take any such statements as "We are 100% committed to doing X thing" and before you know it they are demanding an "update on X thing that was promised" and if they don't get one suddenly the company "has lied to them".

FFG is a great company with a very strong history of support for their products, their actions are of a company that makes a promise and follows through on that promise.  They don't owe the consumer a constant stream of updates and information and frankly when I start seeing posts from a developer who says stuff like "we are working on it", I get deeply concerned because it shows a complete lack of confidence.  A strong company releases products when they are ready not when the community demands them to be ready.

In a way its similiar to having a stalker.  Usually they are pretty harmless overly excited fans, but as soon as you reply to a fan letter they suddenly expect regular communication from their "friend" and if they don't get it they go from harmless stalker to hostile and demanding nut job.

BigKahuna said:

There are two thing going on here.The first is that lack of information and little in the release schedule is never a good sign. Those of us who have been following WFRP over the last couple of decades usually know what this means. Some of us knew that BI was on its way out before the people working for BI apparently did. Similarly, it was clear on these forums that WFRP2 was going to be dropped, even though some fans defended and explained FFG's sudden silence, saying things about communications policies and that they were sure FFG was just too busy working on great new supplements. I suppose they were partly right, but perhaps not in the way they meant.

The second point is, FFG is a business. This fact is usually pointed out to uptight fans when they start to have unrealistic demands and expectations. However, poor communication with your customers is bad business. I work for an organisation dealing with a lot of different businesses and companies, and I can assure you that the ones that don't provide updates or just send you brief, simplistic emails saying very little are the ones you don't do business with again. You might tolerate it for a while if a product is good, but eventually you get fed up and look elsewhere. Sure, that company might suddenly tell you about a really good new product they have, but if you have any sense at all you remember what happened the last time you did business with them.

Cheers

Sparrow

Good communication is expensive. Poor communication is worse (for FFG) than no communication. As it stands FFG tends to get in trouble for the information it does release, with people complaining about missed released dates and the like.

 I think that there is no way to justify the "no communication" policy, sorry to be rude, but it is like this.

Lately I have been going around through different forums of other rpgs and I cannot believe how big the contrast is. As an example, in the One Ring forums, the designers of the game have even released a correction of the journeying rules due to discussions with the fans in the forums! (I think Emirikol posted it here).

macd21 said:

I'm sorry, but this is just pure garbage. Neither is acceptable in any kind of business. You can tolerate failure to deliver - up to a point - as long as you're kept in the loop and know what's going on and why, but hearing nothing at all? No, completely and utterly unacceptable and a certain way to lose customers. We've cancelled orders and walked away from certain suppliers for precisely this reason.

Cheers

Sparrow 

Yepesnopes said:

That's the thing though, they don't have a "no communication" policy, they simply don't have a "on customer demand" communication policy, or a "reply to forum posts" policy.  We know everything their is to know right now.  They are working on Enemy Within, its scheduled for release in Q4 2012.  That's all there is to know.  That's all that's happening.  If and when the game is discontinued, they will tell us.  If they have a new product to announce, they will announce it. 

My point is that I don't think its appropriate for a business to say "We might be discontinuing this product", or "We may or may not release X book that we are working on".  The hostility on the forums right now I personally think is totally uncalled for.  They have given us a great product and they have supported it.  If its the end of the line for it, than its the end of the line.  All products eventually die off, but as a consumer the only power we have to keep a product alive is with our wallets, you can't "forum post" your way into making a game economically successful.  Whatever happens to this game it will be the result of interest in it and if in fact the interest is low, than it makes perfect sense for them to focus on other projects and reduce their productivity on this one.  For now, Enemy Within is it, it may be the last product or it may not be.  Odds are since they haven't told us one way or the other is because they haven't decided one way or the other.

What kind of answer are you expecting from them?  I mean what do you think they haven't told us yet that they should?  Do people really expect that from speculation about the future of a product on the forums, that the company should come here and give us information like "We are waiting on economic results to decide wether or not to cancel the product line"…. Do you think that will be good for business?  

It seems logical to me that until they make their decesions, they shouldn't say anything, I wouldn't.

BigKahuna said:

Your probably right, it may not be good for business. But silence is tantmount to saying the same thing, and I think most people would sooner deal with a company that was open and honest. And let's face it, silence has never been a very good PR policy because it feeds hostile speculation while it persists, and creates even greater resentment if negative facts subsequently emerge.

Cheer

Sparrows

FFG is beneath the industry standard.  All other companies participate on their forums.  If they don't know or can't say somethign they say "we don't know or can't say."  THAT is the industry standard and what is known as "good" customer service.

The problem is that we are just little cash machines to them and they don't give a twinkle-turd about their customers on their forums. (I'm sure my eventual banning is on it's way, because I refuse to sit here an defend them for their choices, but we've put in time as fans and have written stuff for THEM for THEIR PRODUCT and they won't even say "hey, we support you guys, but we just don't have a product for you right now.").

They are defensless except for a couple of fans who feel the need to defend them.  Why can't they defend themselves?  Because they choose the path that allows people to think of them as uncaring, money-grubbing, giant-corporate elitists who are too good to lower themselves to communicating with their customers like "lesser" companies evidently "lower" themselves to.  Lesser companies like those indie companies such as WotC or Paizo…

It's really disgusting actually that they choose not to poke one single keystroke here since Jay Little left.

jh

~ Repeat this mantra after me:  "THEY DON'T CARE ENOUGH TO BOTHER."