And that the PDFs will be available for only a limited time too. No WFRP 2ed in perpetuity...

The limitied availability of the PDFs is the saddest part of the whole thing, and the biggest mistake on the part of FFG.  If anything is going to further alienate the 2E/3E crowd it's that.

No one has tried to fix it. It has been CHANGED!

macd21 said:

The Excuse.

macd21 said:

Foolishboy said:

Foolishboy said:

Of course there was a financial consideration. There's always the financial question. You think BI decided to make v2 out of the goodness of their hearts? Whether or not FFG want to make money off v3 or not isn't a question. But it is irrelevent. What is important is whether FFG decided to make their money by creating a high-quality game that would appeal to people, or a cheap piece of crap that was designed to wring money out of customers.

I think you forget the expensive piece of crap option on you're list there.

No, by 'cheap' I meant cheap to produce, thereby increasing the profit margin of the company. There wouldn't be much point in trying to sell something that was expensive to create if all they want is sell the maximum number of copies for the maximum amount of profit. They'd churn out some shoddy junk and slap a high price tag on it.

jadrax said:

Correct. FFG far more than some companies has to rely on it's name. When i hear FFG i always think of 'quality'. Slow releases frequently but quality. Quality in its books, its boards, its cards etc.

I get the feeling they wanted to redesign and slide it fully under their 'control' so to speak and break with the Black Library legacy.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Personally I don't join forums that deal with things I'm not interested in.

Where should the people who looking forward to the new edition express how they feel, if not in the forum for that product?

Peacekeeper_b said:

I just wonder why some people who aren't interested in 3E are posting complaints in here at all.  If you're seriously not interested in this game, why clog up the boards with complaints about it?

My apologies to everyone for my naysaying. Personally it is true that I am upset by the new edition, more so by the change of game mechanics than anything else.

And yes, I was hoping for a chance to vent my frustration to other players who may or may not agree with me. I understand and have always understood that some people would look forward to this game, and I never meant to insult or degrade them.

As for why I protest here, well it has been long practice to protest near the thing you are protesting. But alas, Im gone, out of here.

And millandson......#$^%*&( &^*

sepayne7l said:

People are fans of the hobby and the game in particular. It is natural for them to want to discuss with others who are also fans, whether their take is positive or negative. It's a "community."

Now I thought that 1st ed was perfect, in the fact that you only needed one book to play.  Pc Generator, GameMaster, and a pretty complete Monster section.  I wasn't going to pick up 2nd ed, then I thumbed it found that the streamlined game was even more perfect.  I mean they eliminated the use of useless dice, so you only needed a couple of ten siders.  I seemed in first edition they included the other dice so that experienced games could still use them, even though you only ever needed sixers and tens.  Didn't  like that now there were expensive supplements to buy, but I guess those actually are needed to play a decent game.

Now what I've reviewed of 3ded, is that it seems horribly lame, similiar to another lame Boxed game, by a certain group of coastal dwelling sorcerors.   So, when is FFG going to try and release  WFRP d20?  to please their dark masters who seem hellbent on alienating all older gamers by dumbing things down, and making things PC(no pun intended).  and 100$ WTF??!!!

So in brief, I agree "If it ain't broken, why fix it?

Was 1e WFRP broken?  No, not really.  It had areas that needed fixing, but a few house rules worked to solve those problems.  Was 2e broken?  No, not really.  It had areas that needed fixing, but a few house rules worked to solve those problems.  Will 3e be broken?  No, probably not, but no game is perfect for everyone and I'm sure it will have areas that will end up getting house (over) ruled too.  Thats just the nature of RPGs.  In fact I can't recall a single RPG in my 25+ years of GMing that I haven't created a house rule for some aspect I thought needed fixing.

Was creating 3e a financial decision.  Of course it was.  There may have been other factors involved, but most companies can't afford to be altruistic and continue to support products that don't maximize profits vs. production costs.  Companies that do that don't stay in business long. So whether or not 2e was broken is quite irrelevant.  What matters from a business standpoint is if a company could continue to support it with new products even though the majority of profits have already been earned from that line by another company.  Things might be quite different if FFG had been involved with WFRP from the start.  Afterall, they have been involved with DH and RT from the start and those lines, for now at least, will continue as they are.

In the past GW has dropped WFRP (both 1e and 2e) once they felt the cost to profit ratio was too low for them.  1e was picked up by a couple of different companies (Flame, Hogshead) that tried to continue support for the game even though the line was in its twilight and profits were down.  Now I'm sure there were other mitigating factors for these other companies eventually dropping WFRP (*cough GW cough*), but I'm sure the bottom line was profit.  You'd be surprised how much crap a licensee will put up with from a licensor if enough money can be made from the license itself, but eventually it reaches a point where its just not worth it anymore and then support dies.  So from FFGs standpoint it makes perfect sense to start over with a 3e rather than try to continue supporting 2e and I don't fault them one bit for the decision.  Anyone who honestly thinks that a company should cater to them and their preferred product rather than doing whats best for the company is living in some type of altruistic fantasy world.

I'm trying to reserve judgement on WFRP 3e until I have more information and/or actually played it.  Some of the things I've heard I like and some things I don't like.  Its not the direction I would have gone with things if I were creating a 3e, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad game.  I may very well find out once I've actually given it a chance that it is the best edition of WFRP yet or I may find out that its just not suited to my tastes and stick with my house-ruled-to-the-gills 2e.  Either way, I for one am glad that WFRP will continue and not go through another Dark Ages.